Challenge: Predominately Sephardic county in the Americas

What it says-have a country with a predominately Sephardic population come to exist in the New World, with a POD after 1450. Can involve either Spain/Portugal sending them there to get them out of the way, another country (Netherlands?) offering them refuge, or something else.
 
Spain still has a fairly large population of Sephardi people in their lands even into the 1530's, due to just heavy prejudice rather than a full conversion/extermination spree (the Muslims got off a bit too, but only after a decade or so of that, but they're there enough to be still distinct, you can hear Arabic every now and then). Perhaps the Monarchs of Castille-Aragon are just a tiny bit less rabid on that.

Either way, fast forward a few decades and the poor Sephardis and Andalusian Muslims are at the equivalent of the untouchable caste in India. The Current Spanish King (or Queen if you wish) is disgusted with their not-Catholicness (they're worse than those PROTESTANTS). Coincidentally, there were demands to settle an island that had some troublesome natives, the Orinoco and the Warao are annoying, and rather than send Spanish people to die, the King/Queen decides to throw heathens at them until the go away. That land? Trinidad.

The Sephardis are happy enough to find a haven, and willingly go there. The Muslims even more so, but they eventually must move to a nearby island when tensions between them and the Sephardis (who were JUST as mean to the natives as Spain is, and just a tad racist) pour over in the 1600's. The Muslims establish themselves in Tobago.

Tobago gets bought by an insane Frenchman who turns it into a pet rock project (the Muslims understandably riot a few years later and the Dutch snap it up in an agreement in the early 1700's), while the Sephardis continue to serve under Spanish overlords. 1822 rolls in and the Sephardis declare independence when an insane Italian King manages to unite Italy and punches Spain, Hungary, and Bavaria in the crotch (and while the poor sod loses when he decides to chew on the Egyptians and costs Italy Venice, Milan, Corsica and Sardinia), using it as a distraction.

They try a monarch, and it works pretty well for the first five years, then the poor sod gets assassinated by a general of his. Said general then tries a republic, like those insane Colombians. It doesn't work. He becomes president for life. His slave stabs him in the face and kills him. Civil war ensues until some idiot says that they should act like the English and have a constitutional monarchy (After he won of course). The others said that this idea is so retarded that it could work (1830's).

They establish the infant of their only monarch as king, and the insane dude who came up with the idea was "elected", and the farce of a democracy survived until 1898, when the Totalitarian Socialists seized the government. They ruled over the Democratic Republic of Trinidad until 1984, when the Dutch funded a popular democratic coup that toppled the rotting state. The Republic of Trinidad did well ever since... well, as well as a moderately poor Ladino speaking country with the Hondura's level of economic well being can be.

Tobago on the other hand remains a Dutch territory, and their Muslim population are better off for it (well, except that time when the Dutch were forced to put down three rebellions in the 1800's and 1900's).
 
Hmm, interesting reply.

One thing that I think would help this-is it possible, with a less devoutly Catholic Ferdinand and Isabella, that the Jews might stay in Spain longer? I think they will get expelled eventually, but if it happens after, say, 1550, then the New World would be developed enough that sending a few thousand there would be a real possibility.

Alternately, is it possible to have the Netherlands offer them refuge? A predominately Jewish colony in, say, Northern Brazil or one of the Dutch Caribbean islands seems interesting.
 
You'd have to get the Netherlands independent a tad quicker then (IE not be bought/inherited by Hapsburgs). Their colonial ambitions didn't really start until the 17th century (Around England's starting period).

That's one of the reasons why I just went with Spain using them as cannon fodder against the natives, so that they could either kill off the natives, or the natives kill off them.
 
You'd have to get the Netherlands independent a tad quicker then (IE not be bought/inherited by Hapsburgs). Their colonial ambitions didn't really start until the 17th century (Around England's starting period).

Right...Dutch Brazil wasn't until the early 1600's, my bad.

Perhaps a Sephardic colony in Argentina, maybe? After the failure of (first) Buenos Aires in the 1540's seems like a good time, actually-the "natives" in the area have proven that they are formidible enough to thwart a fairly well-equipped colonization attempt, so the Spanish just send several thousand Jews over, and promise to keep the Inquisition off their backs if they'll colonize the area.

Another idea that occured to me-Portugal initially offered refuge to Jews expelled from Spain, only to kick them out a decade or so later as (IIRC) part of a marriage arrangement with the Spanish royal family. Butterfly that part of the arrangement-considering Portugal's hostility towards the Jews, it probably won't give the Jews any more than half a century or so. But then, some bright spark in the Portuguese court decides to use them to settle southern Brazil (the then-richer north being reserved for good Portuguese Christians). Later, southern Brazil gets taken over by the Dutch, who once again allow the Jews to practice their religion openly.

Or, they could just go to some random Caribbean island like Mr. Magi suggested.
 

Skokie

Banned
Spain would never allow for a non-Christian colony. Neither would Great Britain or France. Settlement needs to take place after the Enlightenment/revolutions. It would probably involve Sephardim from the Ottoman lands. Perhaps a New World zionism?
 
Here's my idea: A Sephardic colony in what nowadays is Nuevo León and Tamaulipas. (The area around Monterrey was heavily settled by jews during the 16th century)

Sephardic jews treat this place like a "Promised Land" of sorts, where they ain't going to be harassed by the Spanish Inquisition (though, they get attacks from the indigenous tribes in the area from time to time, but that's a small price to pay). After years of settlement on those areas and with the whole religious persecution dying down, they are more or less left alone, with the exception of a "persecution against those heathens" done sporadically.

Fast forward to post-Reform Wars Mexico. With the Republic being apathetic to any kind of effort on converting them, they are left to be, with Monterrey being filled with many wonderful synagogues in the late 19th century.
 
Hmm, interesting reply.

One thing that I think would help this-is it possible, with a less devoutly Catholic Ferdinand and Isabella, that the Jews might stay in Spain longer? I think they will get expelled eventually, but if it happens after, say, 1550, then the New World would be developed enough that sending a few thousand there would be a real possibility.

.

I think Isabella was the one who was devoutly Catholic. Ferdinand might probably have allowed the Jews to stay ... if he could have gotten something from them. Not for anything he was one of Machiavelo's "heros" (along with Cesar Borgia and others)
 
Right...Dutch Brazil wasn't until the early 1600's, my bad.

Perhaps a Sephardic colony in Argentina, maybe? After the failure of (first) Buenos Aires in the 1540's seems like a good time, actually-the "natives" in the area have proven that they are formidible enough to thwart a fairly well-equipped colonization attempt, so the Spanish just send several thousand Jews over, and promise to keep the Inquisition off their backs if they'll colonize the area.

Another idea that occured to me-Portugal initially offered refuge to Jews expelled from Spain, only to kick them out a decade or so later as (IIRC) part of a marriage arrangement with the Spanish royal family. Butterfly that part of the arrangement-considering Portugal's hostility towards the Jews, it probably won't give the Jews any more than half a century or so. But then, some bright spark in the Portuguese court decides to use them to settle southern Brazil (the then-richer north being reserved for good Portuguese Christians). Later, southern Brazil gets taken over by the Dutch, who once again allow the Jews to practice their religion openly.

Or, they could just go to some random Caribbean island like Mr. Magi suggested.

I know this is not the idea, but IOTL many "crypto-Jews" (forcebly converted to Christianity, but practicing their religion at home) went to Portugal at the end of the XV century, and later, to Brazil. After 1580, when Portugal And Brazil were united, and pressure against them in Brazil augmented, some of them fled to present day Argentina, Bolivia and Perú. In 1600, there were secret synagogues in Lima, who were uncovered by the Inquisition. Those who fled to Buenos Aires probably fared better, as there wasn't and inquisition tribunal, and nothing was heard of them.

Eventually, however, they were to few, and their descendants, at some point, stop practicing the faith of one or both parents (or maybe they chose to keep it secret from them).

There's a good historical novel about this, called La Gesta del Marrano
 
Spain would never allow for a non-Christian colony. Neither would Great Britain or France. Settlement needs to take place after the Enlightenment/revolutions. It would probably involve Sephardim from the Ottoman lands. Perhaps a New World zionism?
There were some early Zionists(Leon Pinsker comes to mind) who supported this OTL. Maybe if that idea shows up a few generations earlier?
 
I know this is not the idea, but IOTL many "crypto-Jews" (forcebly converted to Christianity, but practicing their religion at home) went to Portugal at the end of the XV century, and later, to Brazil. After 1580, when Portugal And Brazil were united, and pressure against them in Brazil augmented, some of them fled to present day Argentina, Bolivia and Perú. In 1600, there were secret synagogues in Lima, who were uncovered by the Inquisition. Those who fled to Buenos Aires probably fared better, as there wasn't and inquisition tribunal, and nothing was heard of them.

Eventually, however, they were to few, and their descendants, at some point, stop practicing the faith of one or both parents (or maybe they chose to keep it secret from them).

There's a good historical novel about this, called La Gesta del Marrano

Thanks, that might be an interesting novel to read (I've been reading into Argentine history in the past couple weeks. The 1810-1850 period is confusing as hell;). I get the Unitarian-Federalist divide, but the blizzard of coups is really hard to follow)

Anyway, I kind of knew crypto-Jews hung around Ibera for a while, especially Portugal...and, considering all the prejudice that was directed at Conversios (or however you spell it:eek:), it doesn't seem too far-fetched that Portugal, or a slightly more moderate Spain, might get the idea of packing them off to some isolated corner of the New World.

Say Ferdinand prevails upon Isabella not to expel Spain's Jewish population. Things, go, well, oppresively for them until Phillip II becomes king and, both being a good arch-Catholic and needing money, does order all Jews to convert or leave Spain without their property. Portugual thus gets a bunch of Jewish refugees it doesn't really want, and Phillip begins putting diplomatic pressure on the Portuguese crown to outlaw Judaism as well.

Portugal eventually does order all its Jews to convert, but, wanting settlers for southern Brazil, agrees to grant newly "converted" Jews land there with the promise that the inquisition won't bother them if they move across the ocean and out of royal sight (but not out of the royal tax register). Ultimately, 10,000-20,000 conversios are settled in a broad area of the coast, from Espirito Santo down to Rio Grand do Sul. All are nominally Catholic, but most continue to practice Judaism in secret.

This is somewhat controversial, and after the Portuguese-Spanish union, the Portuguese Inquistion gets turned loose on the place, generating a lot of fear and resentment and forcing the crypto-Jews deeper underground. In the early 1600's, the Dutch attack southern Brazil and find a good deal of support from the crypto-Jews, who, thanks to Dutch freedom of religion, don't have to be crypto anymore. Thanks to its established Jewish community, the colony becomes a magnate for crypto-Jews in the Spanish Empire, who immigrate in moderate numbers. In the early 19th century, it gradually secures autonomy from the Netherlands, and becomes a popular destination for Jewish immigrants from eastern Europe.
 

Jlinker613

Banned
I'm pretty sure at one point there was a proposal to move the so called nonbeliever to the Balearic Islands, so there's that.
 
Here's my idea: A Sephardic colony in what nowadays is Nuevo León and Tamaulipas. (The area around Monterrey was heavily settled by jews during the 16th century)

Sephardic jews treat this place like a "Promised Land" of sorts, where they ain't going to be harassed by the Spanish Inquisition (though, they get attacks from the indigenous tribes in the area from time to time, but that's a small price to pay). After years of settlement on those areas and with the whole religious persecution dying down, they are more or less left alone, with the exception of a "persecution against those heathens" done sporadically.

Fast forward to post-Reform Wars Mexico. With the Republic being apathetic to any kind of effort on converting them, they are left to be, with Monterrey being filled with many wonderful synagogues in the late 19th century.

To me, this seems plausible, because didn't Sephardic Jews move to that part of the new world over the course of the late 17th century?
 
I'm pretty sure at one point there was a proposal to move the so called nonbeliever to the Balearic Islands, so there's that.

Jewish Balearics sounds interesting, although the Balearic Islands moving to somewhere near the coast of South America is more so ;)
 
The main problem with mass Sephardic emigration to the New World is, why would they cross the Atlantic? Expelled Jews from Spain have a good Ottoman Empire like right there. Crossing the Atlantic means a longer, more expensive voyage followed by the hard work and suffering of trying to hew a new nation out of nothing.

I'm also not entirely sure that the Catholic Monarchs are going to be pleased with the idea of sending the Jews off where they could taint innocent pagan minds with their Christ-killing. While a lot of the Spanish colonization of the New World was economic, a lot of it was also from a genuine desire to spread Catholicism - something a large Jewish community would probably inhibit.

For my money, I think the best chance comes from the Dutch. I've never been entirely clear on why Jodensavanne failed, but maybe if we get some Dutch and/or English Jewish philanthropists encouraging immigration to the area, they could get a large enough population to become a predominantly Sephardic colony (and later state).

Further north, almost all of the Jews in the United States were Sephardic until the waves of Ashkenazim came in the 19th century. Would it satisfy your goal if, say, the Jewish community in Newport grew enough that Rhode Island became a primarily Jewish state within the Union (or under the British, or whatever)?
 
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