Challenge-Possible Ways for America to Fall

My vote is for Godzilla

Nah, the Big G can barely ravage Tokyo. (And the one which did attack in New York, in the bad American movie, was run off by Ferris Bueller and a squad of French commandos--and that Godzilla had about a million Godzookies helping it, too!)
 
One nuke - read Bill Forstchen's "One Second After". It's the most terrifying book I've ever read - because it's so realistic.
 
Alright, I will propose this challenge.

Is it possible for the United States of America to Collapse between now, and the year 2012, maybe by a World War, Civil War, you name it.

I challenge you to create a scenario in which this is possible, and possibly plausible.

OK, though this should be in the Future History forum, I'll bite. Suppose terrorists detonate a nuclear bomb in Washington, DC, while both houses and the Supreme Court are in session and the president is holding a cabinet meeting. (I don't know if they have those simultaneously, but run with me on this.) Everyone in the presidential line of succession as well as the entire legislature and Supreme Court are wiped out. Chaos ensues, and the military declares nation-wide martial law but cannot contain the violence. American society collapses and all citizens quickly devolve into roving bands of cannibalistic barbarians.

How's that? :p
 
OK, though this should be in the Future History forum, I'll bite. Suppose terrorists detonate a nuclear bomb in Washington, DC, while both houses and the Supreme Court are in session and the president is holding a cabinet meeting. (I don't know if they have those simultaneously, but run with me on this.) Everyone in the presidential line of succession as well as the entire legislature and Supreme Court are wiped out. Chaos ensues, and the military declares nation-wide martial law but cannot contain the violence. American society collapses and all citizens quickly devolve into roving bands of cannibalistic barbarians.

How's that? :p
America would probably hold an emergency election or something.
 
Authority would continue on a state and local level. Your state governors and legislatures would still be around, to take charge of the situation. So would the generals and admirals, although they're answerable to the civilians.
 

boredatwork

Banned
There is always one individual in the immediate chain of command outside of DC for exactly this reason.

Presidency defaults to them, national emergency, governors nominate new reps & senators until the next elections. DC federal circuit court fills in for supremes, &/or (more likely) all cases are in abeyance until a new court is sworn in by a new congress.

Seriously - several decades of cold war - this is one they've thought over folks, thoroughly and often.
 
Alright, I will propose this challenge.

Is it possible for the United States of America to Collapse between now, and the year 2012, maybe by a World War, Civil War, you name it.

I challenge you to create a scenario in which this is possible, and possibly plausible.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Short of Yellowstone going off, we're good. None of that stuff you mentioned is going tocause the US to collapse in the next three years.
 
Well, if we continue spending so much, taxing so little, keeping a huge military stuck all over the world, and keep taking positions opposite most of the world, we are very likely to get someone to want to short our currency and bring us down.
Add in the very real possibility of investors losing confidence in the Dollar, and the Euro becoming the de facto world currency. (IMHO I don't see why anything non-American HAS to be traded in Dollars...), we could see an economic collapse, followed by a governmental collapse.
Finally, the perception of the US has been severely weakened by Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy and Katrina. We're not looked upon as the world leader we once were...
 
Fall of the nation? Not possible nor desired.

Fall of the American empire and American empire building? Slightly possible in such a short time, almost inevitable in the long run (next 20-30 years), and highly desired even by many if not most Americans. We could easily become like Britain, formerly a (de facto) empire but still a vibrant nation and democracy.
 
A people as a whole will not fall , so the USA will continue to exist, although its government and stateform may change. This means that America, as mentioned, cannot fall either, since this definition is about its people.

Concerning the State Government, the USA can be changed, although highly unlikely by force. The biggest threath is domestic rebellion against state related institutes, given the nature of the American People, with very different roots from everywhere. These groups, associated with anti Federal and State thinking may be both small and large, depending on which individual group you look at. Small sekts and groups of militant militia's, are known to exist, as do several more criminal groups, especially in the cities. Political inspired groups, with other than "standard" political ideas are also known, both those based on religion and on those based on racial ideas. Also new immigrants can form groups, that might turn away from the federal union or state.

All these are potentially capable of opposing the USA as a state, depending on the size of the group whether it is likley to be effective or not.
 
There is always one individual in the immediate chain of command outside of DC for exactly this reason.

Presidency defaults to them, national emergency, governors nominate new reps & senators until the next elections. DC federal circuit court fills in for supremes, &/or (more likely) all cases are in abeyance until a new court is sworn in by a new congress.

Seriously - several decades of cold war - this is one they've thought over folks, thoroughly and often.

True enough.

Also under the US Constitution, the states can raise armies, declare war, engage in international diplomacy, etc, when faced with dangers where the Federal government is either unable to respond or unwilling to respond.
 
True enough.

Also under the US Constitution, the states can raise armies, declare war, engage in international diplomacy, etc, when faced with dangers where the Federal government is either unable to respond or unwilling to respond.
?? I don't remember that. What section?
 
?? I don't remember that. What section?

Here is the bit I was thinking of.

Article 1, Section 10, last paragraph

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
 
I think I have a winner in how to make America fall by 2012.

The USA wins the next Soccer World Cup. Adding insult to injury, the American on the broadcasting team keeps yelling "TOUCHDOWN!" when the USA scores. Worldwide, soccer fans cry out for retribution and force their countries to declare war on the USA. The US military is unable to cope with the legions of soccer hooligans swarming across the northern and southern borders.

:D:eek:
 

terence

Banned
Well, if we continue spending so much, taxing so little, keeping a huge military stuck all over the world, and keep taking positions opposite most of the world, we are very likely to get someone to want to short our currency and bring us down.
Add in the very real possibility of investors losing confidence in the Dollar, and the Euro becoming the de facto world currency. (IMHO I don't see why anything non-American HAS to be traded in Dollars...), we could see an economic collapse, followed by a governmental collapse.
Finally, the perception of the US has been severely weakened by Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy and Katrina. We're not looked upon as the world leader we once were...

For the US, having it's imports, especially Oil, and most importantly, all of its debts, denominated in its own currency is of indescribable advantage.
If you were, for instance, the Finance Minister of Ruritania, in order to buy the services of a high-class New York hooker who only accepted Dollars ($), you would first have to change your Hohenzollerns (Hz) into that currency. The transaction itself means that your Hohenzollerns (Hz) are discounted. In theory you have to find someone who has excess Dollars($) who is willing to surrender them for Hz even though the opportunities to buy things valued in Hz are less than those available to buy things in $. He does not do this for nothing and demands a premium--in other words you actually get less $ for Hz--or less Hooker, than the real value. In practice we do this through a bank that acts both as an intermediary and as a Hooker. Whatever, you still get f***ed!
Imagine being to pay all your bills with hand-written IOUs that promised payment with whatever you had to hand at the time the IOU was presented. Way back when--or to be exact, 1971, dollars were convertible into a fixed value of gold so, knowing how much gold you could buy for Hz--you could always work out the real value of buying dollars.
Now, however, we are in the period of 'Quantitive Easing' or printing money or "debasing the Currency".
China buys a squillion dollars worth of US T-Bills. One day they cash them in. Fine! Just print a squillion dollars worth of notes. Saudi Arabia presents an oil bill for a billion dollars for oil. Fine, give them a credit to buy tanks, guns, planes or the services of high-class hookers. It's writing out another IOU.
 
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