Challenge: Olympics continue uninterrupted from ancient Greece to today
- Thread starter acgoldis
- Start date
Have an emperor reform and Christianize the events, maybe getting representatives from every diocese of the empire. It could be an event that helps keep the empire together.
Wasn't the main issue of the games the rampant corruption rather than it not being a Christian celebration?
I always thought they were shut down by Theodosius as part of his anti-pagan campaign. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, what I know of this is that Theodosius' antipaganism is a bit overblown. He was against sacrifices, but not the actual temple-destroyer people usually think he was. Most temples were destroyed/reused for other purposes during the first half of the V century. Later church historians embellished his Christian "pedigree" because he was the first Christian emperor to follow the right branch of Christianity (even the great Constantine had somewhat heretical tendencies, while Valentinian was not as harsh against heresy). As such, Theodosius abolishing the Olympics games just because not a Christian thing sounds a bit suspicious.
Then there is the notion that the games were possibly abolished under Theodosius II (it would not be the first time ancient historians confused the two) not Theodosius I.
It might be possible that the end of the games had more to do with corruption, expenses and decreasing popularity rather than simply anti-pagan feelings. But I do not totally rule out the later.
Just wondering what happens then when Christianity spreads outside of Roman Empire and there will be dioceses outisde of Rome. And what then when and if Roman Empire falls.
I guess that every diocese gets rights to participate to Olynpics. Not sure what happens when Christianity splits to many factions. And travelling through Europe on Middle Ages is goingt obe intresting thing.
True. At least there would be some changes and probably temooraly forgotten/declining as minor event until someone revive the event.
They may be able to be suspended during major wars (or warring dioceses may not send representatives), but continue overall. The modern Olympics were suspended during the World Wars, for instance.
Over so many centuries, and if they remain popular, I wonder if dioceses end up forming up the basis of future nation-states rather or on top of military or political changes.
Over so many centuries, and if they remain popular, I wonder if dioceses end up forming up the basis of future nation-states rather or on top of military or political changes.
I was going to say unrealistic, as the Olympics were known to be interrupted for major wars... but if we only consider that a "suspension", then I believe they could have been kept around if we butterfly away the event/person who caused them to stop. Whether that was Theodosius or someone else. I imagine without them, they would have gone on, as the Greco-Roman culture was largely focused on physical fitness and sporting events were used as a way for actual soldiers to stay in shape. Ancient pentathlon, for instance, actually consisted of events that would be useful to the soldiers....
For what it's worth, there are several festivals in India that were reported in the 300s BCE by Greek travelers which still go on today.
There are some Egyptian festivals that seem to have continued from Pharonic times and some evidence suggesting some Cretan folk dances are Minoan in origin.
Opet festival boat building in the name of Ra, continues as the local Islamic festival of Sheik Yusuf al Haggag an Islamic holy man who traveled around Luxor by boat. The fact they both have boats and parades aren't coincidence.examples??? I'd like to go back to my egyptian TL sometime
Last edited:
And you could argue that Christmas is too thousands years old festival since it is originally Roman festival called Saturnalia. Yes, Christmas has changed through centuries and it wasn't yet very big thing on early 19th century.
And probably Jews have lot of festivals what they have had since Captivity of Babel at least. Hanukah is over 2000 years old and Yom Kippur and Passover even older.
And probably Jews have lot of festivals what they have had since Captivity of Babel at least. Hanukah is over 2000 years old and Yom Kippur and Passover even older.
Add some horse riding events, Lance work and jousting, armoured fencing and mounted archery to keep the upper classes involved.
I'd like to suggest an alternative to "Christianising" the Olympics - for them to become a tool of diplomacy. What you need is for a Roman emperor, maybe in the aftermath of the Imperial Crisis, to start inviting delegations from allies of the Roman empire - friendly Germanic and Arab tribes, Armenians when the kingdom is aligned with Rome, even Indian and Chinese delegates. This turns the Olympic game into a source of prestige and income for whoever holds Olympia, but also into a diplomatic tool - an unofficial meeting of 'world leaders' every 4 years, with high-ranking diplomats accompanying their local athletes hoping to curry favor with Rome, and to forge alliances amongst themselves. After the Roman Empire collapses, the Olympic games become a part of the Byzantine diplomatic arsenal - selectively inviting favored states or even factions within a state - for example, inviting Abbasid delegates to participate in an Olympic game during the third Fitna, to indicate a preference in a civil war. Olympia becomes the second city of the empire after Constantinople, and is oftentimes the wartime capital during the late empire when Constantinople is sometimes temporarily lost.
Upon the arrival of the Ottomans, (or any other Turkish/Arab/Slavic/Norman/Whatever state finally displaces the Byzantines), the Sultan embraces this ancient tradition as a way to legitimize himself, and of course keep this powerful diplomatic tool. The Olympic games remain almost unchanged from the Roman model, maybe with a slight Ottoman reflavoring, and as the modern age begins they become truly global - the United States are admitted into international politics when they are invited to the Olympic games of 1802.
With the establishment of the UN or an equivalent body, the management of the games are transferred into international hands, and they become an official global event, with all UN member states participating, not only in the athletic parts but in the international summit accompanying them.
Upon the arrival of the Ottomans, (or any other Turkish/Arab/Slavic/Norman/Whatever state finally displaces the Byzantines), the Sultan embraces this ancient tradition as a way to legitimize himself, and of course keep this powerful diplomatic tool. The Olympic games remain almost unchanged from the Roman model, maybe with a slight Ottoman reflavoring, and as the modern age begins they become truly global - the United States are admitted into international politics when they are invited to the Olympic games of 1802.
With the establishment of the UN or an equivalent body, the management of the games are transferred into international hands, and they become an official global event, with all UN member states participating, not only in the athletic parts but in the international summit accompanying them.
The connection between Christmas and paganism is dubious at best. However, the Jews and their traditions are a very good example.