Challenge: Most likely map after Nazi Victory

If Great Britain capitulates then these maps would have to include the entire world because Germany would surely gain control over Britain's colonies. Maybe Japan would be allowed to take India, but the Nazis would rule most of Sub-Saharan Africa.
I would be happy to make such a map if only I knew how:(
 
Sorry, but we (I'm Swiss) are not that important that great powers would go to nuclear war about us... :(

And if this ATL EU is a German dominated club - as tightly controlled as OTL's Warsaw pact was by the Soviets - they would have a LOT of leverage against Switzerland (they control all trade routes!) - and therefore, submission without firing a shot is the most likely outcome - if this means membership in the EU as one of the minor partners, or outright division and annexation, would depend on the prevailing mood in Berlin - and may be Rome....

Well, as I said before that. After the war they left Switzerland alone, allowing it to continue economically in return for its other benefits - espoinage, illicit trade and finance and so on.
 
I would be happy to make such a map if only I knew how:(

It's not hard. Just go through this site until you find a couple of blank maps. Try wikipedia also an so on. Then use them of picture editior on your computer and draw and colour away.
 
Well, as I said before that. After the war they left Switzerland alone, allowing it to continue economically in return for its other benefits - espoinage, illicit trade and finance and so on.

Makes no long term sense at all, if it's surrounded by ONE side - suppose Utah would be an independent nation as an island within the US - who would benefit from espionage in Utah? only the enemies of the US - and with whom would they trade? physical trade still has to go trough the dominant neigbhor, or trough it's airspace - so a neutral place somewhere on an island would make much more sense...
 

Susano

Banned
Sorry, but we (I'm Swiss) are not that important that great powers would go to nuclear war about us... :(
Yes, they would, at least in case of open invasion. MAD demands it. Though, Germany could still simply besiege Switzerland, or incite rebellions or similar...
 
Makes no long term sense at all, if it's surrounded by ONE side - suppose Utah would be an independent nation as an island within the US - who would benefit from espionage in Utah? only the enemies of the US - and with whom would they trade? physical trade still has to go trough the dominant neigbhor, or trough it's airspace - so a neutral place somewhere on an island would make much more sense...

Well Lesotho remained free and independent despte being completely surrounded by an apartheid rulled South Africa yet it was not invaded, annexed or coerced to submit despite all trade leaving the area went through South Africa. True the circumstance are somewhat different but would after years of war and the risk of another, vaster conflict really want to risk invading or blockading Switzerland? The Nazi's lacked in foresight quite a lot but they weren't necessarily stupid enough to do that.
 
Well Lesotho remained free and independent despte being completely surrounded by an apartheid rulled South Africa yet it was not invaded, annexed or coerced to submit despite all trade leaving the area went through South Africa. True the circumstance are somewhat different

Besides being landlocked and resource poor, their isn't a comparable situation at all...
Apartheid ideology maintained that the blacks should have their 'separate countries' where they would look after their affairs - but outside South-Africa. Therefore, marginal territories where spun of as so called 'homelands' (usually called Bantustans) - nominally 'independent countries' surrounded by South-Africa, with no real chance of economic developement.
In most respects, there wasn't a fundamental difference between most Bantustans and Lesotho - Lesotho had been considered to marginal to be directly included in SA earlier, and it still was - and therefore it's territory was more contigous.. But annexing it would run diametrically against the whole Apartheid system...

but would after years of war and the risk of another, vaster conflict really want to risk invading or blockading Switzerland? The Nazi's lacked in foresight quite a lot but they weren't necessarily stupid enough to do that.
But in a scenario where mainland Europe is Nazi-controlled (or - in a different scenario, where the Red Army (absend Overlord) marches to the Atlantic) - but no war between Great powers is still going on - there is no risk involved in coercing Switzerland. Switzerland has no ports, and it has no deposit of fossil fuels, or minerals. So, unless their is foreign trade, the economy will tank totally, huge numbers will get unemployed, and their will be no heating in winter for many. And of course there doesn't need to be a direct blockade - just hike prices for coal, or transit fees on your railroad, until the Swiss government complies with the conditions - there wouldn't be a public outcry, but in the 'interest of national security' those demanding resistance would be muted - and of course, at least 20 % would actually support whoever looks like the winner - it's always good to be on the winning side! So, whatever the demands of the winner - they would finally be met - reluctantly, may be, at first, until those really eager to comply would take over completly...

And of course, there wouldn't be ideological reasons to spare the Swiss - quite the opposite - not annexing / integrating them in to the 'New Europe' would really look absurd from a Nazi PoV (as well, in the opposite scenario, from a Soviet PoV...).
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
Reposting this map here (from map thread IV) since the the intention of the map was not to be pretty nor cleverly zany (in large part a heavily modified version of the Fatherland map on Wiki). In retrospect, a lot of my changes are very conservative in comparison to maps on this thread. Copying and pasting my blurb from the map thread:

POD in the early 20s I suppose. It's basically an Axis victory world where Italy manages to shape up to a reasonable degree and get enough oil by the time it enters the war. This is largely achieved by a coup by junior officers which helps to flush out incompetents and the corrupt. Italy feels confident enough about itself that it does not adopt anti-semitic policies and becomes a refuge for Jews.

It consolidates a 'Mediterranean Coalition' which orients itself more along the lines of Italian Fascism and Falangism. The Mediterranean Coalition eventually founds a Zionist state along their ideological lines, the repercussions of which sets the stage for a future cold war in the Middle East between Germany and the Mediterranean Coalition (the grey dots in Saudi Arabia are Hashemite refugee encampments akin to the Palestinian camps OTL).

The explanation for the US not entering the war was going to be that Huey Long gets in and there's a much more determined, never fully-successful Business Plot which leaves the US debilitated by severe civil strife for an extended period of time before the installed regime is removed. The US then fights proxy wars against the Axis in South America and against Germany by supporting the Mediterranean Coalition.

Germany also experiences a coup once Hitler dies and the regime becomes less ideologically extreme. I opted for the Fatherland illogic of Germany not bothering to go beyond the Urals, with many Slavs escaping to this area. I was also thinking that since the genocides did not reach the proportions they did OTL, the fascist powers don't resort to the genocide of millions on a whim.

This is overly optimistic, I know, but genocide of all the native populations of Africa, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe and its repercussions is firmly beyond my imagination, so I've tried to keep it manageable. Also, I'm a student of international relations, not history, so I think that given the situation victorious Axis powers would have found themselves in post-war, they might have been forced to get real about what was within their capabilities and set about competing with eachother even if it meant supporting Arab or African nationalists against eachother.

[There is a bit of country gerrymandering in favour of people's deemed closer to Europeans for religion of whatever reason, though there is also rewarding of peoples who were just loyal in previous conflicts, eg. muslims in Italian East Africa.]

This lack of extreme genocide means that as time goes on and demographics turn against the Apartheid regime in South Africa, they resort to bantustans as in OTL. The problem is I've kept the bantustans all the same and I gave up before I'd done anymore research on more realistic entities. [I'm sure there are other name and border anachronisms too.] For fluent speakers of the languages [or those with better knowledge and evidence for what was going to be renamed as what], I'm happy to get any pointers on any of the names in the list of countries at the bottom.

The 'Fascist allies' in Europe, the Middle East, and obviously South Africa are German allies while the 'Fascist allies' in Asia are Japanese allies. Japan is neutral in the Mediterranean Coalition + US vs. Germany cold war and is largely concerned with keeping its sphere of influence secure.

axis-victory4.PNG
 
I doubht that Ireland would be troubled by the Nazis. Im sure the Bloody Blueshirts would take power.

Also i read that Germany planned on resettling the entire Dutch Population east of the vistula as punishment for the War. The Netherlands would become the SS State of Holland. Also where is Burgundy people?
 
This one is made after what the Germans was hoping to achieve

Very good map Knight Templar. Wouldn't the general government and Bohemia-Moravia have been fully absorbed in Germany by 1961 though? Or would that be by the 1970s? And wasn't Smolensk supposed to go to Ostland?

What would be really interesting is if someone could post a map of the intended or likely gaue and reichsgaue from a Nazi victory. I've seen reference to reichgaus of Flanders, Brussels and Wallonia, not sure what was supposed to happen to the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway or Burgundy though. Also never seen anything on planned reichgaus for the general-government or Ostland, Ukraine or although I have seen a map that seems to indicate that Bohemia Moravia might well have been split between the sudetenland and the gaue and reichsgaue from (the former) Bavaria and Austria.

Here's another map showing Nazi victory plans:

besetztes5_2.jpg


Interestingly, it shows two areas in the Ukraine: Hegewald (that's what it looks like) and Haldstadt or Halestadt or something like that which could be the basis of future reichsgaue.

Here's the link for the above map with the legend in English:

http://www.obersalzberg.de/cms_e/content/popup/besetztes5_2.jpg

and in German:

http://www.obersalzberg.de/cms_d/content/de_ausstellung_weltkrieg_besetztes/besetztes_5.html
 
Very good map Knight Templar. Wouldn't the general government and Bohemia-Moravia have been fully absorbed in Germany by 1961 though? Or would that be by the 1970s? And wasn't Smolensk supposed to go to Ostland?
Well this map of mine is under constant updating so I'll change that to nex time. And that map you posted is the one I have used as a base
 
Switzerland

I feel I must make up for my trollishness about switzerland a year ago and comment on why it is usually independant in the maps(besides the cliche). I think it would probably be a case of using it as an intermediary for business more like a forced satellite than a direct annexation. This doesn't make sense from a nazi ideological point of view but from a realistic view of the world I would guess the germans want some sort of place they can use as a puppet without the rest of the world knowing about it. The same could probably be said about Switzerland IOTL WW2. It was not keen on joining the reich nor were the nazis not keen on making it join. However, it was more profitable as an independant nation than it would be as a resistant territory. You probably keep getting the saying that the Swiss, 'work six days a week for german victory and than pray on the last day for a british victory.' that was around during the war(supposedly, I'm going on half-remembered quotes from my grand-dad here, gimme a break.) On the other hand, you'd probably get SS in the country making sure the Swiss 'know what's good for them' as well, so it obviously wouldn't be truly independant.
 
Some very nice maps here. I found this old one laying around, suggesting what happened to Europe 10 years after a devastating Nazi victory.

The blitz against Russia was successful and the US and Germany never went to war. The east was difficult to pacify, but progress was steady. After a few years, a truce was signed with the rump Soviet union remaining behind the Urals, but partisan activity continued in the great Russian parts of Reichkomissariat Moskva.

Meanwhile, Britain kept fighting one more year, during which German armies in the southern Caucasus and in North Africa pushed against the middle-east, while diplomatic talks forced Spain and Turkey to join the Axis. Ultimately, Churchill was thrown out of office after he failed to stop the full might of the Axis from overrunning the Middle-East. An uneasy peace was signed, granting Germany mastery of the continent and token colonies. With the lackluster Italian performance in North Africa, Hitler made it clear they would not get to keep all the Axis Middle-East, and set up a puppet Arab Federation to rule over it.

After the war, Germany absorbed the neutral nations on the continent with extreme prejudice, and rewarded his allies. France lost more land in the north and east, and shrank to her borders at the height of the HRE. In North Africa, Germany helped herself to Morrocco and Italy got Tunisia, Corsica, the italian parts of Switzerland, the coast of former yugoslavia and greater Albania, as well as East Africa. Turkey expanded eastwards and gained Cyprus. Serbia ceased to exist, split amongst her neighbors and her slav population greatly diminished through hard labor. A puppet state of Flanders-Wallonia replaced the southern netherlands, west belgium, and the Pas-de-Calais, while Germany helped herself to the germanizable lands to the east and the north.

Over the next few years, Germany sought to consolidate her role as leader of Europe and positioned herself as top dog in a new European hierarchy where each continental state occupied a position based on, essentially, how helpful she could be to Germany. France gained some clout back by being a dutiful servant, and Italy, viewed as useless, lost some as time passed. Spain and Turkey, which had bartered well for their entry into the war, were rewarded with exceptional freedom, whereas some close German allies were kept on a tight leash because they had outgrown their usefulness.

It became clear overtime that Britain would rather align herself with the US than become a close friend of the new order. Aside from the basic trading rights enclosed in the peace treaty, Britain prefered to do buisness with the New World. After her victory against Japan, America became increasingly interested in ensuring Britain's independence and well-being.

When British positions in Iran were threatened by pro-Axis revolutionary elements, the US sent help to Iran to defend the pro-western regime. Germany's answer was swift: the Azerbaji north and the rich oilfield province neighbouring Iraq were occupied and annexed into Reichkomissariat Caucasus, and the Arab Federation, respectively. The Sunnis ruling the latter quickly expelled the local Shiite population, which forced Teheran to accept full-scale US assistance, and created a first friction point between the two nuclear superpowers, and marked the dawn of the Cold War.

europe7ow3.png

can anyone help me edit this map?
 
I do not see Germany gaining any colonies after the war. Russia is one thing, but colonies in Africa take a lot of naval power which Germany just does not have.
 
After a long thread in ASB, I do intend to do something fun with this map. This is a counterfactual 1981, and I'd like to do something in SW with it, sometime.

Key included at bottom.

Germany wins 1981 World, With Key.PNG
 
Remember folks,

Most likely post-victory maps!

attachment.php


The day WW2 ended, February 14th 1943.


While Fall Gliebe was made, so was another plan that was originally meant to fight the French in North Africa should the French governement flee to Alger and continue the war there. With Vichy France and the armistice, the plan is changed into one against the UK in the middle-east.
The 3rd Reich is able to fool the UK than an air offensive against the isles is imminent and a prelude to an attempted invasion, while axis forces regroups in Lybia for a surprise attack by a small but well-equipped force.
Alexandria is seized, axis continues the war from Egypt into the middle-east and when the Suez canal is crossed, Spain declares war.
In spring 1941, the axis is struggling against the false imperium for the control of Syria/Palestine/Jordan/Iraq.
With the axis that occupied in the middle-east, Stalin and his staff doesn´t believe that the axis will launch an offensive in the summer of 1941 against the Soviet-Union.
Hitler doesn´t want to wait another year and rather than cancel operation Barbarossa, settles for a smaller version of it.
Attack on Moscow and Leningrad are only deception operations, while real attack is to seize the caucase from the Soviet-Union.
No battle of Moscow and no siege of Leningrad, seizing the caucase fail but it buy enough time for the axis forces in the middle-east to enter and secure Iran, the Soviet-Union doesn´t attempt to occupy that country and the 3rd Reich doesn´t battempt to attack the Soviet-Union from it.
Oil embargo on Japan is broken, thus attack on Pearl Harbour and south-east asia are avoided.
Churchill is forced to resign soon after. Axis retreates from western europe. Belgium and its colonie is broken-up between Vichy France and Holland, with Wallonia being an autonomous region ruled by Leon Degrelle, in exchange for the northern half of Congo, France gives up Tunisia.
The Japanese are given some satellite states in Indonesia and in exchange gives up part of Vietnam back to France, continue war in China.

Yiddish Madagascar and the Neuschwabenland colony in Antarctica, hurr hurr!

Battle in the Soviet-Union, first a renewed offensive into the caucase in the first half of 1942, then an attack against Moscow in the second half.
Realising the Soviet-Union have been considerably understimated and that the axis armies risk being crippled if invasion of Moscow is engaged, Hitler settles for an armistice and focus on defending the already conquered zones.
The region held by the axis near Moscow is turned into a demilitarised zone belonging neither to 3rd Reich or the Soviet-Union. Evacuation of Norway, Island, Greenland and Danemark by both London and Berlin are proceeding on schedules.


Thus begin the cold war.
 
Top