Challenge: Maximum Protestantism

With a POD after the Peace of Augsburg, what is the maximum success Protestantism can have in Europe? (IE, the most countries that can plausibly become officially protestant)
 
With a POD after the Peace of Augsburg, what is the maximum success Protestantism can have in Europe? (IE, the most countries that can plausibly become officially protestant)

I would guess the current areas plus France, Southern Germany, Bohemia, Poland, and Hungary.
 
I would guess the current areas plus France, Southern Germany, Bohemia, Poland, and Hungary.

Thanks for the response!

Sorry if my OP was originally unclear-what specific POD(S) would push Protestantism to its maximum possible extent in Western Europe?
 
1555's a bit late for creating a maximum Protestantism...

Perhaps Matthias Flacius has a "Damascus" moment and somehow becomes more amenable to the Calvinist/Philippist view of the Lord's Supper. With this the Gneiso-Lutherans have lost one of their main voices, and the Lutheran Discord won't be quite as bad. Without the contentious issue of the Eucharist, Melanchthon and Flacius cooperate during 1555-1560 to unify the Lutheran movement and push for a unification with the Calvinists.

This also fits with Calvin's goals and perhaps in TTL an evangelical council is held that manages to unify a large portion of the Protestant movement. Without as much Protestant infighting surely more people and areas could be won/maintained against the Counter-Reformation.

Add to this perhaps Bloody Mary dying earlier and Calvin living longer (He was only 54 when he died) and you could perhaps see Protestantism reach a greater extent.
 
With a POD after the Peace of Augsburg, what is the maximum success Protestantism can have in Europe? (IE, the most countries that can plausibly become officially protestant)

Depends. Emperor Ferdinand I converting might help significantly; he was probably the closest Austria and Germany came to a Protestant Emperor in that period.
Him being the head of such a large, nominally Catholic territory might influence other princes to follow suit.
 
Depends. Emperor Ferdinand I converting might help significantly; he was probably the closest Austria and Germany came to a Protestant Emperor in that period.
Him being the head of such a large, nominally Catholic territory might influence other princes to follow suit.

Some would say that this was Maximilian II, but I get your point; Ferdinand was rather pragmatic with respect to religion, although he personally was a Catholic.
 
Perhaps Henry creates a fad when he creates the Church of England?
Other kings might follow suit in order to diminish the power/influence of Rome?
 
Perhaps Henry II of France converts to Protestantism when young, and favors it instead of Catholicism during his reign. If he does not die young, he might keep a lid on the religious tensions, and move France into the Protestant camp.
 
Perhaps Henry creates a fad when he creates the Church of England?
Other kings might follow suit in order to diminish the power/influence of Rome?

Henry was pretty much following the fad when he did actually. The German Princes had already started this idea.

A decent POD would probably include Luther not alienating all the other reformist leaders, creating a sole Protestant faith which could become a religious diplomatic front against Catholicism. The League of Schmalkalden was a fight for Austria, the 30 Years War was a huge struggle, but if Protestant Europe actually stood together as one Protestantism together could have beaten the Catholic states and started forcing major Catholic states to recognise religious freedom laws. Eventually the Protestant demographic could erode and infiltrate the Catholic ruling classes in certain countries until there is the potential for a national conversion.

Not a sure thing it would work, but I reckon there's a fair chance in there.
 
Henry was pretty much following the fad when he did actually. The German Princes had already started this idea.

A decent POD would probably include Luther not alienating all the other reformist leaders, creating a sole Protestant faith which could become a religious diplomatic front against Catholicism. The League of Schmalkalden was a fight for Austria, the 30 Years War was a huge struggle, but if Protestant Europe actually stood together as one Protestantism together could have beaten the Catholic states and started forcing major Catholic states to recognise religious freedom laws. Eventually the Protestant demographic could erode and infiltrate the Catholic ruling classes in certain countries until there is the potential for a national conversion.

Not a sure thing it would work, but I reckon there's a fair chance in there.


But of course we saw the opposite as well; the Counterreformation gained ground in "religiously free" Poland, it reclaimed Austria, etc. And why would Protestant Europe stand together? Catholic France was a strong enemy of Catholic Spain.
 
But of course we saw the opposite as well; the Counterreformation gained ground in "religiously free" Poland, it reclaimed Austria, etc. And why would Protestant Europe stand together? Catholic France was a strong enemy of Catholic Spain.

Well, I can see how a united Protestant movement would certainly help things.

Since you mentioned the Counter-reformation, could that be reduced as well (by say, not having Ignatius Loyola found the Jesuits, or no Council of Trent, or something)?

Two other PODs I can think of:
1) Whats the best the Protestant side could have done in the Thirty Years War? I understand Austria was majority Protestant at the time, can we force the Hapsburgs to follow their subjects?

2)Is it possible to have the King of France get really pissed off at the Pope, and found a "Church of France"?
 
but if Protestant Europe actually stood together as one Protestantism together could have beaten the Catholic states and started forcing major Catholic states to recognise religious freedom laws...

This is interesting because the protestants states themselves were incredibly intolerent.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The best POD would be either Maximillian II or Ferdinand converting. I think Maximillian would be the most likely, if he convert defacto the entire easten and southen part of Germany are Protestant (with a few enclaves like Bavaria), with only the Low Lands and French-speaking areas left as Catholic. The big Ecclessial states will likely also go Catholic, plus in this case Poland are cut off from all Catholic neighbours, leaving the Catholic elements there weaken. The Spanish will likely be pissed and push for Philip as counter emperor, but with the Netherland rebelling they likely give the crown to Maximillian. So instead of 80YW we get a Spanish-German war over the Burgundian inherience.
 
This is interesting because the protestants states themselves were incredibly intolerent.

Yes they were. They were also extremely hypocritical, as indeed everyone is at some point. At one point the German states went to war over their right to religious freedom (for the life of me I can't remember the exact date right now, might even be the TYW I'm thinking of, which would make me really look stupid if I can't remember it), and there's no reason why they couldn't use an unprecedented success in a war like that to insist on a full-scale acceptance of religious freedoms in the Catholic states, while continuing to suppress Catholicism in their own territories. At the least, they could make it much harder for Austria to purge its Protestant upper classes.

And why would Protestant Europe stand together? Catholic France was a strong enemy of Catholic Spain.

It would only take the one war. The Thirty Years War, ignoring France's playing the field, was a pretty good example of how Protestant states could stick together. Remove the denominational segregation and add a bit more history of cooperation and you could feasibly imagine a Thirty Years War, only with the major Protestant players all fighting at the same time...
 
Add to this perhaps Bloody Mary dying earlier and Calvin living longer (He was only 54 when he died) and you could perhaps see Protestantism reach a greater extent.

You may be right about Calvin, but I think Mary did more to spread Protestantism than to stymie it. If she had died, or even never ascended the throne, Protestantism might have played out the same way it did in France, as a plaything for the rich. The rural population was still quietly Catholic through Henry's reign. As it was, Mary's heavy-handedness gave the Protestant faction a set of martyrs, and her Spanish husband made Protestantism a matter of patriotism.

Luther's followers made some overtures to the Eastern Orthodox Church. If that had been successful, then something sorta like Lutheranism might have made inroads into the Slavic countries or the Balkans. (Of course, the Orthodox made the Roman Church look downright flexible in doctrinal matters. Lutheran influence might have been slim.)

It's a little late, but a Christian defeat at Lepanto might have kept Rome's hands too full for theological wrangling in Northern Europe.
 
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