Challenge: Make Ungern-Sternberg's Mongolian Empire Successful

A little known story about occult level mysticism and the mad delusions of a would be Khan.

To make a long story short, in 1921, a Baron named Roman Ungern von Sternberg, a White Russian soldier and loyalist to the Czar (who had the eyes and mysticism of Rasputin and the dreams of Hitler), took control of Mongolia from the Chinese with the aid of a mixed army of cossacks, tribesmen, Russians, and Mongolians.

Sternberg then went on to declare himself dictator of Mongolia; but not only that, he was a fervent monarchist and an insane warlord who believed he was the reincarnation of Genghis Khan, was a believer in a violent interpretation of Buddhism where his genocidal butchery sent less desirables up to be reincarnated into better beings, and set his sights on building a new Mongolian empire with him at the helm, and perhaps even restoring the Quing dynasty and uniting the Far East under it.

However, Sternberg only ruled for a few months in 1921 (March to August, in fact), and was eventually captured by the Bolsheviks and summarily executed.
*****

So my challenge to you is to make Sternburg's ambitions successful, either in just becoming a successful dictator of Mongolia and at most, achieving his dream of establishing a vast empire in the East. And how would such things affect the world and history at large?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Ungern_von_Sternberg
 

Hashasheen

Banned
A little known story about occult level mysticism and the mad delusions of a would be Khan.

To make a long story short, in 1921, a Baron named Roman Ungern von Sternberg, a White Russian soldier and loyalist to the Czar (who had the eyes and mysticism of Rasputin and the dreams of Hitler), took control of Mongolia from the Chinese with the aid of a mixed army of cossacks, tribesmen, Russians, and Mongolians.

Sternberg then went on to declare himself dictator of Mongolia; but not only that, he was a fervent monarchist and an insane warlord who believed he was the reincarnation of Genghis Khan, was a believer in a violent interpretation of Buddhism where his genocidal butchery sent less desirables up to be reincarnated into better beings, and set his sights on building a new Mongolian empire with him at the helm, and perhaps even restoring the Quing dynasty and uniting the Far East under it.

However, Sternberg only ruled for a few months in 1921 (March to August, in fact), and was eventually captured by the Bolsheviks and summarily executed.
*****

So my challenge to you is to make Sternburg's ambitions successful, either in just becoming a successful dictator of Mongolia and at most, achieving his dream of establishing a vast empire in the East. And how would such things affect the world and history at large?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Ungern_von_Sternberg
Hamburger has a TL on it.:cool: Challenge completed.
 
Hamburger has a TL on it.:cool: Challenge completed.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=86666 - Here is a link to it.

To make a long story short, the Baron does it by sticking to the Japanese instead of going out on his own to capture Mongolia as a rogue, independent warlord. He carves out a White Russian state in the Far East and eventually captures Mongolia later in 1923 and Manchuria in 1931. Using Siberian oil, Manchurian resources and mostly Korean and Chinese slave labor he develops and cultivates his domain into a vibrant, growing industrial power.

Later in 1932, he exploits the dire agricultural situation in Soviet Ukraine, Central Asia and Southern Russia to ferment a popular revolt against the Soviet regime. While the revolt is in full swing, he invades and with help from Japan, Poland and Finland, defeats the crumbling Soviet state in 1933. He restores the Tsar in Moscow, installs a fundamentalist Orthodox regime in Ukraine and props up the Khan of Bukhara as the new Muslim Caliph. He continues to industrialize Russia and by the last update where I left off, it is 1937 and the Baron has just begun his campaign to take China. He has invaded the westernmost province of Xinjiang and has linked up with the Dalai Lama in Tibet.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Yeah, but a TL where he really is Khan of Mongolia would be fun. However he had a lot of problems in the end; desertions, treason and reds (Russians and Mongolians).

Perhaps if he did not try to return to Russia after his success in Mongolia, but instead stayed and forged a temporary alliance with Chinese warlords and Japan he could have survived in Mongolia.
 
Yeah, but a TL where he really is Khan of Mongolia would be fun.
But the thing is he never planned to be the actual Khan of Mongolia. That position belonged to the deposed spiritual sovereign of Mongolia, Bogd Khan, whom the Baron reinstated as Mongolian Khan once in power.
 
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Hashasheen

Banned
But the thing is he never planned to be the actual Khan of Mongolia. That position belonged to the deposed spiritual sovereign of Mongolia, Bogd Khan, whom the Baron reinstated as Mongolian Khan once in power.
I have a Khan as head of state in a Mongolian Confederacy that is vassal to Japan, how's that sound? :D
 

ninebucks

Banned
The Baron wasn't that bad. He did feed children...

to other children.


Yeah... It really doesn't bare thinking about. A successful Mongolian Empire would make the Khymer Rouge look like a cocktail party.
 
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=86666 - Here is a link to it.

To make a long story short, the Baron does it by sticking to the Japanese instead of going out on his own to capture Mongolia as a rogue, independent warlord. He carves out a White Russian state in the Far East and eventually captures Mongolia later in 1923 and Manchuria in 1931. Using Siberian oil, Manchurian resources and mostly Korean and Chinese slave labor he develops and cultivates his domain into a vibrant, growing industrial power.

Later in 1932, he exploits the dire agricultural situation in Soviet Ukraine, Central Asia and Southern Russia to ferment a popular revolt against the Soviet regime. While the revolt is in full swing, he invades and with help from Japan, Poland and Finland, defeats the crumbling Soviet state in 1933. He restores the Tsar in Moscow, installs a fundamentalist Orthodox regime in Ukraine and props up the Khan of Bukhara as the new Muslim Caliph. He continues to industrialize Russia and by the last update where I left off, it is 1937 and the Baron has just begun his campaign to take China. He has invaded the westernmost province of Xinjiang and has linked up with the Dalai Lama in Tibet.

I think that the OP was striving towards plausibility rather than wankery.
 
A little known story about occult level mysticism and the mad delusions of a would be Khan.

To make a long story short, in 1921, a Baron named Roman Ungern von Sternberg, a White Russian soldier and loyalist to the Czar (who had the eyes and mysticism of Rasputin and the dreams of Hitler), took control of Mongolia from the Chinese with the aid of a mixed army of cossacks, tribesmen, Russians, and Mongolians.

Sternberg then went on to declare himself dictator of Mongolia; but not only that, he was a fervent monarchist and an insane warlord who believed he was the reincarnation of Genghis Khan, was a believer in a violent interpretation of Buddhism where his genocidal butchery sent less desirables up to be reincarnated into better beings, and set his sights on building a new Mongolian empire with him at the helm, and perhaps even restoring the Quing dynasty and uniting the Far East under it.

However, Sternberg only ruled for a few months in 1921 (March to August, in fact), and was eventually captured by the Bolsheviks and summarily executed.
*****

So my challenge to you is to make Sternburg's ambitions successful, either in just becoming a successful dictator of Mongolia and at most, achieving his dream of establishing a vast empire in the East. And how would such things affect the world and history at large?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Ungern_von_Sternberg

Did someone else read that book review in the Economist? ;)


Oooh, I'd forgotten about that... but a 30-year WWI more than strains plausibility.
 
I think that the OP was striving towards plausibility rather than wankery.

It is easy for one to dismiss a barebones two-paragraph summary of an entire TL as implausible just as it would be for a two-paragraph summary of many a topic from OTL. I also find the idea of "wankery" as too unfairly thought of as being the opposite of or outside the realm of plausibility.

Please read the TL before dismissing it as implausible. If you have read the TL and still see it as such, then would you mind pointing out why? For I find it especially displeasing for someone to dismiss an entire TL, which I've put so much time, effort and research into as implausible without even mentioning why.

I admit that the TL is "wankery" but that does not make it implausible, maybe unlikely but not implausible or ASB. If you look at history you will see many such instances of "wankery". You could call OTL a "Roman-wank", a "Europe-wank", a "Spanish Empire-wank", a "British Empire-wank", an "American-wank" or even a "Mongol-wank". If you read one of the posts on page 18, I plan to preface the next incarnation of my TL with;

But how did a petty Siberian warlord rise to conquer the world and become “Khan of Eurasia”? This is the question that continues to baffle historians, even those who have studied extensively the Baron’s political, military and spiritual career. There is another question, however, from the annals of history that is a direct parallel to the first one. It is a question, just as baffling with an answer just as elusive. It tells the same tale of conquest and destiny. In much the same fashion, it defies the rules of historical convention. In the center of the Baron’s vast domain, are the mighty, Mongolian Steppes. Seven hundred years ago, it was inhabited by scattered tribes of nomadic horsemen whom the world looked down upon as barbarians. How did they come to conquer the world?

Is it because the Baron has never been defeated? Well that is one of the reasons I'm starting over with the TL, none of the Baron's wars have ended in defeat so I'm gonna have him pull off a failed invasion of Inner Mongolia and other such ventures. But the makeup of the TL will still be pretty much the same as that which you consider implausible (he still takes power in Siberia with help from the Japanese, and turns it into an industrial power, he still invades the USSR through fermenting revolt in the Ukraine).

Is it because the Baron's empire seems to get larger and larger and it never looses momentum? Well you haven't given it time. The TL isn't finished yet and it hasn't reached that point where it crumbles and collapses. In much the same way as Hitler, Imperial Japan, Napoleon, the Romans, the British, the Spanish, the Soviets and the Mongols seemed to be on top of the world at one point in history, so will the Baron, and just as those empires and entities disappeared into the pages of history, so will the Baron and his vast Khanate.

For wait, and you will see that I will make the eventual downfall of this latter-day Mongolian Imperium, just as dramatic and momentous, just as cataclysmic and earthshattering as its unlikely rise.
 
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