Challenge: Make Hole more popular than Nirvana

Romantic Nihilist

I know this will ruffle a few feathers but being a fan of both Kurt and Courtney I thought this would be interesting. How would Hole become more successful than Nirvana? Would Nirvana have to remain with Sub Pop? Would Hole release their debut without the No Wave influence?

Be critical, be fair, behave.
 
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mrsandman

Have Nirvana never take off or achieve much less success than OTL, there is no way the Hole is going to make a "Smells Like Teen Spirit".
 

Sen

Fix the muddy, bad production of Pretty on the Inside. Bring it closer to the clear but grungy sound of Bleach.
 

AdA

Live through this was IMO a better album than anything by Nirvana. Swap miths. Kurt kills Courtney in a drug related car crash. nad the 12th song would be the actual Rock Star, not Olympia under a new tite, and that song+dead Courtney would kill Nirvana as a band...

Hole_-_Live_Through_This_-_back.jpg
 
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Sen

AdA said:
Live through this was IMO a better album than anything by Nirvana.
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Live Through This is my fave Hole album, but I have to disagree here. LTT abuses the whole quiet verse-loud chorus formula a bit too much for me to think it's better than Nirvana, who at least had some variety beyond the usual Pixies dynamics.

Plus, Dave Grohl was a better drummer than Patty Schemel and Samantha Maloney.
 

Romantic Nihilist

I have a few POD's:


  • Kurt Cobain doesn't date Toby Vail (She inspires a number of songs on Nevermind - it was her friend who came up with the phrase 'Kurt Smells Like Teen Spirit' as well)
  • Courtney Love falls out with Kim Gordon over production of the first Hole album and decides to shed the No Wave influence
  • Sub Pop sort out their early financial woes as Grunge becomes a bigger hit in England due to Everett True's piece on the 'Seattle Sound' in Melody Maker
  • Nirvana release 'Sheep' on Sub Pop which becomes a minor hit
  • Hole's debut is released around the same time. The album combines raw, angry Alternative Rock with disparate stylings of such bands as Fleetwood Mac
Hole's debut would be different to the early Grunge sound. Early Grunge had a Metal-edge (Check Gruntruck and of course, Nirvana's debut). Courtney Love said herself she wasn't a fan of Metal.
 
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Andrew T

Andrew T

Music critic Gary Mulholland argued that the central guitar riff from "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was lifted directly from Boston's "More Than A Feeling," and in response, Nirvana set out to prove him right. (Warning: do not click that last link if you're a Boston fan; it will cause you to cry.)

Obviously you don't want a POD that butterflies away "More Than A Feeling" -- unless you're trying to create a nightmarish dystopia, that is -- but anything in the late 80s that changes Boston could easily butterfly away Cobain getting inspired by "More Than A Feeling."
 

AdA

Less dramatic option

Kurt goes into rehab and comes out boring and fat. Courtney stays clean and hot and dumps him for Edward Norton. She replaces Helena Bonham Carter in fight club and (send hate mail elsewhere please, I love Uma, this is just a AHC) Uma Thurman on Pulp Fiction. She collaborates with Billy Corgan and recruits Melissa auf der Maur earlier...
She's now cool as fuck and more profitable than Madonna...
The large alien bat on her shoulder looks suspiciously like Elvis:D
 

Romantic Nihilist

Andrew T said:
Music critic Gary Mulholland argued that the central guitar riff from "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was lifted directly from Boston's "More Than A Feeling,"
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But could have Teen Spirit (having a different name in this timeline if he hadn't met Toby Vail - possibly might not even exist) been a hit? If they stayed with Sub Pop they may have an ardent fanbase akin to the Screaming Trees or Mudhoney. They wouldn't have much clout without Geffen's distribution.
 

Romantic Nihilist

Sen said:
And Kurt Cobain admitted that he was actually trying to rip off The Pixies, specifically "Debaser".
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I thought it was 'Tame'? :p Besides, it makes no difference without the clout of a major label like Geffen. Mark Lanegan released solo albums on par with the albums of Nirvana yet they were only moderately successful.
 

Sen

Romantic Nihilist said:
I thought it was 'Tame'? :p Besides, it makes no difference without the clout of a major label like Geffen. Mark Lanegan released solo albums on par with the albums of Nirvana yet they were only moderately successful.
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I think it was "Debaser". "Tame" sounds nothing like "Smells Like Teen Spirit", though Kurt did do his best Black Francis on "Hairspray Queen".
 

Romantic Nihilist

Sen said:
I think it was "Debaser". "Tame" sounds nothing like "Smells Like Teen Spirit", though Kurt did do his best Black Francis on "Hairspray Queen".
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You may be right there. I think it was the loud-quiet dynamics that formulated the Nirvana sound. But what influences could have made Hole a bigger success?

Not as big as Nirvana were but more successful.
 

AdA

Romantic Nihilist said:
You may be right there. I think it was the loud-quiet dynamics that formulated the Nirvana sound. But what influences could have made Hole a bigger success?

Not as big as Nirvana were but more successful.
Click to expand...

When Billy Corgan produced them they sound a lot more radio friendly. They also looked a lot more MTV friendly width Melissa auf der Maur playing bass. Just steer them in that direction earlier and tone down Courtney's BS...
 

Sen

AdA said:
When Billy Corgan produced them they sound a lot more radio friendly. They also looked a lot more MTV friendly width Melissa auf der Maur playing bass. Just steer them in that direction earlier and tone down Courtney's BS...
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Billy Corgan had writing credits. Michael Beinhorn produced Celebrity Skin.
 

Romantic Nihilist

AdA said:
When Billy Corgan produced them they sound a lot more radio friendly. They also looked a lot more MTV friendly with Melissa auf der Maur playing bass. Just steer them in that direction earlier and tone down Courtney's BS...
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But any BS from Courtney is publicity. Look at Sex Pistols and JAMC.
 
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