Challenge: Let's plan a Coup!

In 1944, the coup attempt yet to come the closest to success against Hitler, failed. Now, your mission is to plan, in detail if possible, a coup sometime between barbarossa and the end of the war, leading to the dismissal of the Nazi government.

To your help you have all the original conspirators, any others you think were likely candidates, as well as any disillusioned soldiers on leave near Berlin.

Do you think it is possible? Would it be possible earlier than 1944?
 
If Von Stauffenberg had included both bombs, this assures the death of Hitler and it was the revelation that Hitler was still alive that doomed Operation Valkyrie.

No three-hour delay between the bombs going off and the beginning of the coup makes it more likely the plotters will be more fully in control when Hitler manages to call out of the bunker.

To go a little bit earlier, I think there was a meeting where Himmler was present that V.S. could have blown up, but he didn't. In the movie "Valkyrie," I remember a meeting with Himmler where he kept staring creepily/ominously at V.S. for some reason.

There was also a 1943 bomb plot where, had the bomb gone off, Hitler would have been blown up in midair. This was at the beginning of "Valkyrie."
 
If Von Stauffenberg had included both bombs, this assures the death of Hitler and it was the revelation that Hitler was still alive that doomed Operation Valkyrie.

No three-hour delay between the bombs going off and the beginning of the coup makes it more likely the plotters will be more fully in control when Hitler manages to call out of the bunker.

To go a little bit earlier, I think there was a meeting where Himmler was present that V.S. could have blown up, but he didn't. In the movie "Valkyrie," I remember a meeting with Himmler where he kept staring creepily/ominously at V.S. for some reason.

There was also a 1943 bomb plot where, had the bomb gone off, Hitler would have been blown up in midair. This was at the beginning of "Valkyrie."

Yes, I just saw it actually, which made me interested in the subject. Would that liquor bomb plot have worked though? After all, it was before V.S.'s revision of the Walküre plan.

The idea with this thread however, was to come up with a new coup, as if we were actually in Germany at that time plotting it :D
 
Yes, I just saw it actually, which made me interested in the subject. Would that liquor bomb plot have worked though? After all, it was before V.S.'s revision of the Walküre plan.

The idea with this thread however, was to come up with a new coup, as if we were actually in Germany at that time plotting it :D

well then lets get plotting, perhaps with different historical figures involved than OTL, i'm quite up for a coup in germany, perhaps one with some figure acceptable for the Western Allies leading it (it needs to be an extremely well respected figure, so that the Western Allies might want to negotiate with them)
 
By 1944 the Allies weren't going to negotiate with anyone. In 43 maybe but I doubt it.

Well, that depends (in 1943 that is). Sure, the allies had promised to only accept unconditional surrender, but if the Germans offered serious concessions, they would be hard-pressed not to accept, or it might kill the motivation of their servicemen, unless they were truly brainwashed that is.

Non the less, Hitler made some bad decisions in '44 and I'm sure there are many Germans who think they could do better.
 
There was some planning by Treskow and Von Kluge to arrest and drum head trial and execute Hitler in 1943 when he came to visit army group center but the opportunity didn't present itself.

There were 3 generals that had serious personal ongoing fueds with Hitler who could have been put in charge of the government although imo only one of them had the interest in the politek to even try

1. Guderian - Had severe disagreements with Hitler in 1943 over the Kursk offensive. Guderian was supported by Speer, Manstein and Model amongst others whilst Zietzler, Keitel and Jodl persauded Hitler to let the offensive go ahead. Guderian was well known and respected in the west and also had the command of the panzer training troops of the home army and could have ordered them in a Valkerie type way to overthrow the government. IMO second most likely person outside of the Valkerie group themselves to do this... if he prevents the Kursk offensive it could lead to bloody stalemate

2. Manstein - In 1944 he had been having a severe personal feud with Hans Hube then the commander of the 1st Panzer Army which was a subordinate formation to Army Group South. Hube went over Manstein's head directly to Hitler on numerous occassions which drove Manstein insane (he threatened his resignation over this issue at least 15 times)... the bickering over command let to Hube's entire army getting trapped in the Kaments pocket. Manstein was furious and went to Hitler in a very violent and angry state of mind. Hitler correctly stopped interfering with Manstein's subordinate formation and gave him the 1st Panzer Division and the Leibstandarte to break the pocket (Manstein's last brilliant action)... this was the first time Hitler backed Manstein over Hube. If Hitler had taken the other course and ordered Kaments to be held in a Stalingrad type action and told Manstein to go fuck himself Manstein was at the point after 3 years of non stop stress where he could have arrested Hitler or even shot him himself. Manstein had the support of nearly the entire apparatus of the German army and most of the senior SS leadership liked him (Hauser, Steiner, and Dietrich had all served under him with positive relationships left behind) This would be March 1944 before Bargration and Dday... I don't know if he could save the situation but it would make an interesting TL (best case for the Germans would be a bloody stalemate)

Rommel - After Hitler ordered the insane holding of ground at Aleimein and Tunisia Rommel had become severly disillusioned and outright hostile to Hitler. His staff at high command west were players in the Valkerie group. Rommel himself knew about the plan although wasn't a direct conspirator. Members of his staff had approached him about letting the allies through the lines to quickly occupy Germany in the event Hitler was overthrown. Rommel was friendly to the idea and sounded out some of his subordinate commanders... most notably Dietrich whom Rommel asked if he would follow his orders even if they were in controvension to Hitler's to which Dietrich replied your the boss her feldmarshal. He would not do an independant coup like Guderian or Manstein. he would certainly have taken over high command west and supported the Valkerie plotters if they succeeded
 

NothingNow

Banned
My Possibly ASB Plot.
Head (Figurehead): Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck (a Civilian Face for the Gov't and Well respected in the US and UK)
Plotters: Canaris, Rommel, Speer, Mainstein, Model and Theodor Von Hippel.
Method: Brandenburger Commandos assassinate Goering, Hitler and Himmler. Also SS headquarters is to be Attacked by Several Wehrmacht Divisions. SS units in the Field are Disarmed, forcibly if Need be. Dönitz is encouraged to step down if he is not Included in the Plot.
The Luftwaffe (under Adolf Galland ) supports the Plotters against the Nazi "Loyalists".
Date: Anywhere from Late 1943 to Mid 1944

Yeah I put Von Lettow in there, but he is the Only German Politician I can think of that the Western Allies would really be willing to Negotiate with. At this time He's been retired for over two Decades. But he's 73 years old in 1944 so take that as you will.
Also, Canaris was a member of the Resistance OTL, Rommel was sort of Involved in Valkirye, and I'm betting that Von Hippel and his Brandenburgers might be more loyal to Canaris and Von Lettow than Hitler.
 
My Possibly ASB Plot.
Head (Figurehead): Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck (a Civilian Face for the Gov't and Well respected in the US and UK)
Plotters: Canaris, Rommel, Speer, Mainstein, Model and Theodor Von Hippel.
Method: Brandenburger Commandos assassinate Goering, Hitler and Himmler. Also SS headquarters is to be Attacked by Several Wehrmacht Divisions. SS units in the Field are Disarmed, forcibly if Need be. Dönitz is encouraged to step down if he is not Included in the Plot.
The Luftwaffe (under Adolf Galland ) supports the Plotters against the Nazi "Loyalists".
Date: Anywhere from Late 1943 to Mid 1944

Yeah I put Von Lettow in there, but he is the Only German Politician I can think of that the Western Allies would really be willing to Negotiate with. At this time He's been retired for over two Decades. But he's 73 years old in 1944 so take that as you will.
Also, Canaris was a member of the Resistance OTL, Rommel was sort of Involved in Valkirye, and I'm betting that Von Hippel and his Brandenburgers might be more loyal to Canaris and Von Lettow than Hitler.


Waffen SS units would fall in line if the army took over... the senior leadership liked the army senior leadership Dietrich Hauser and Steiner were close personal friends with Guderian, Manstein and Rommel
 
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