Challenge: let the Franconian Colours fly high!
- Thread starter Anja
- Start date
Valdemar II
Banned
Challenge: let Franconia be an influential region, not a neglected part of Bavaria and her neighbours.
PoD between Charlemagne and the Congress of Vienna.
Extra points for:
Let Franconia be the leading power in the HREGN.
Let Würzburg be the capital.
The first thing you need are that Würzburg aren't made a Bishopric, through a solution could also be that its secularised in the reformation, if it's come in union with Ansbach and Bayreuth, such a state would be a medium player in Germany.
Agreed, fewer bishops and more territorial lords might well be the answer. Franconia was one of the early duchies and could easily retain more of a cohesive identity if someone manages to pull it together.
To make it the leading power in the HREGN would require a very early POD in my opinion. You can't have a power like that inside the boundaries after the interregnum. But a Franconian territorial power that is strong enough to face down Bavaria is almost going to have to be a power to be reckoned with, at least on par with Saxony or Wurttemberg.
One thing that I'nm wondering about. I'm by no means good at medieval territorial history, but could the Reichsgrafschaft Nürnberg have been the core of a growing territory? The city was independent and tok over large chunks of land, but could it have been sold to a local ruler by a weak or otherwise occupied emperor? With that as an anchor to ambitions, you could then come to some marriage alliance or merger with Ansbach and Bayreuth, encroach on the big bishoprics and really clean up during secularisation.
Alternatively I can only see a core far to the noerth. Franconia in its historical boundarioes has way too many high-level ecclesiastical territories.
To make it the leading power in the HREGN would require a very early POD in my opinion. You can't have a power like that inside the boundaries after the interregnum. But a Franconian territorial power that is strong enough to face down Bavaria is almost going to have to be a power to be reckoned with, at least on par with Saxony or Wurttemberg.
One thing that I'nm wondering about. I'm by no means good at medieval territorial history, but could the Reichsgrafschaft Nürnberg have been the core of a growing territory? The city was independent and tok over large chunks of land, but could it have been sold to a local ruler by a weak or otherwise occupied emperor? With that as an anchor to ambitions, you could then come to some marriage alliance or merger with Ansbach and Bayreuth, encroach on the big bishoprics and really clean up during secularisation.
Alternatively I can only see a core far to the noerth. Franconia in its historical boundarioes has way too many high-level ecclesiastical territories.
I agree, that the Prince-bishops of Bamberg, Würzburg and maybe Fulda and Eichstätt are the highest obstacle for a united Franconia.
We can for once hinder the bishops from becoming secular princes (before 1168 when Würzburg was first).
But there are at least two more times when it seemed possible to break the predominately role of the bishops.
First during reformation and the 30jw (Bamberg and Würzburg as duchy under Bernard of Saxe-Weimar 1633-4).
Second during the German Mediatisation.
We can for once hinder the bishops from becoming secular princes (before 1168 when Würzburg was first).
But there are at least two more times when it seemed possible to break the predominately role of the bishops.
First during reformation and the 30jw (Bamberg and Würzburg as duchy under Bernard of Saxe-Weimar 1633-4).
Second during the German Mediatisation.
IIRC the zollern came from that area. Maybe if they failed to get Brandenburg and instead concentrated on acquiring territories closer to home?
Of course there's nothing particularly brilliant about the famnily, but having a Franconian dynasty with Prussian Leitnamen might be fun from an AH in-joke point of view.
I think mediatisation is too late, given the considerable influence Bavaria had in decisionmaking at the time. The Thirty Years' War, on the other hand, sounds like a good POD. Again, I'm not that knowledgeable about the minutiae (ask Grey Wolf, maybe). Could the emperor be persuaded - or forced - to tolerate a Protestant, secularised entity to the north of his erstwhile ally? Maybe sell Bavaria down the river, even? A Swedish victory scenario could do it, but I think that'd be too pat.
Between the X. and XII. century Franconia (first including Rhenish Franconia) was very near to the kings and often centre (position in the middle of the realm north of the Alps) of their power. There was no single family to gain a strong hold and to keep it close to the kingdom it was given to the clerics. To make Franconia strong we need to make it possible to create a strong family to hold her (maybe even as a core of a kingdom/empire without interregnum). Possible candidates are the Staufer or the Hohenzollern. . This is the timeslot to gain the brownie points for a leading Franconia.
The 30JW need to be a greater success for the protestant site to get rid of the bishops. If that happens everything is possible.
There was a Grand Duchy of Würzburg (1805-14) but I don't know how it can survive (fortunate change of sites, weaker Bavaria?).
I don't know enough about all three times to find plausible PoDs.
---edit---
The 30JW need to be a greater success for the protestant site to get rid of the bishops. If that happens everything is possible.
There was a Grand Duchy of Würzburg (1805-14) but I don't know how it can survive (fortunate change of sites, weaker Bavaria?).
I don't know enough about all three times to find plausible PoDs.
---edit---
the first possible happens before the Hohenzollern get Brandenburg, Franconia is a better place for the centre of power.