Challenge: Japanese Australia

DMA

Conor O'Rourke said:
If the Japanese didn't have smallpox already when the Europeans arrived, they would have had an epidemic EXACTLY LIKE the Aboriginals did.

A quick google search for "japan smallpox history" turns up thousands of results, one of which is this page:
http://encarta.msn.com/media_701508643_761578931_-1_1/Smallpox_Through_History.html

Which says that smallpox first appeared in Japan in the year 585.
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Well that's basically all I WANTED TO KNOW as, previously I was under the assumption that Japan was free of such illnesses until a later date.

As a result, the Aboriginal population would probably thus undergo a similar situation as when contact took place with the First Fleet of 1788.
 

Hermanubis

Forum Lurker said:
. Also, the musket is hardly the be-all and end-all of weapons technology; its advantages lie in ease of production and ease of training, which allow for the fielding of larger, not better, forces.

.
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Yes, I’ve even heard it said that Longbows and Composite bows were just as if not more affective. Any way, how are the Aboriginal supposed to defeat the Japanese I’m not sure:

- Japan is closer to Australia then Britain is
- Japan is more populated then Britain is
- Japan could have access to the same Technology as Britain, if somebody besides the Tokugawa come to power, or even if the Tokugawa just don’t inpose Seclusion but instead expensinism.
- Japan has all the same Eurasian diseases such as Smallpox
- Also, it seems as thou I’ve heard that the Aboriginals were even more primitive technology wise (Weapons technology) then the Native Americans (supposedly they didn’t even have Bows and arrows?) , so how exactly are they supposed to defeat the Japanese, even without Smallpox?!
 

DMA

Hermanubis said:
Yes, I’ve even heard it said that Longbows and Composite bows were just as if not more affective. Any way, how are the Aboriginal supposed to defeat the Japanese I’m not sure:

- Japan is closer to Australia then Britain is
- Japan is more populated then Britain is
- Japan could have access to the same Technology as Britain, if somebody besides the Tokugawa come to power, or even if the Tokugawa just don’t inpose Seclusion but instead expensinism.
- Japan has all the same Eurasian diseases such as Smallpox
- Also, it seems as thou I’ve heard that the Aboriginals were even more primitive technology wise (Weapons technology) then the Native Americans (supposedly they didn’t even have Bows and arrows?) , so how exactly are they supposed to defeat the Japanese, even without Smallpox?!
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Actually the clincher to a successful invasion of Australia isn't all that but the Smallpox business. Until I was convinced that the Japanese had Smallpox (see earlier postings on the subject), you could have Japanese bows & arrows, Samuri swords, even muskets, but the Aboriginals would win by a combination of things - sheer numbers, knowing the geography of the land, the Japanese being completely isolated (over 8 000km from home), plus the Aboriginals would engage in a type of warfare that'd benefit them. However, considering the Japanese would bring smallpox with them, the Aboriginal population would be decimated before any major engagement ever took place. The overall result would be somewhat akin to what happened after the First Fleet landed here in 1788.
 

Nicole

JimmyJimJam said:
If Japan couldnt take and hold the Philippines, how in the world are they going to pull this one off?
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With only the Aboriginies, who are being devastated by smallpox, I think that Australia becomes much easier than the Phillipines...
But then it may simply end up being worthless to the Japanese, who simply ignore it, believing it to have no natural resoruces..
 

Wyboy26

Japanese Immigration

What about the Austrailian Government, after suffering alot of causualties in WW1, encouraging Massed Japanese Immigration after 1918, when WW2 happens and they try to intern them, there is a massive revolt, with arm supplied by subs and aid by paratroopers. With the need to bring troops home to defend the Austraila, the japanese have a easier time in the southern Campaign and invade

Simon
 

DMA

Wyboy26 said:
What about the Austrailian Government, after suffering alot of causualties in WW1, encouraging Massed Japanese Immigration after 1918, when WW2 happens and they try to intern them, there is a massive revolt, with arm supplied by subs and aid by paratroopers. With the need to bring troops home to defend the Austraila, the japanese have a easier time in the southern Campaign and invade

Simon
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All Australian governments, regardless of party, supported the policy called the "White Australia Policy" (from Federation until the 1970s). Basically it stopped anyone immigrating to Australia who weren't, as the name suggests, white. But even then, white people were usually limited to citizens of the UK. So Japanese immigrantion would be severely limited to, at most, a few thousand every year (if even that). Now drastically increasing the numbers of Japanese immigrants, at this period of time, would have been next to impossible in the Australian political environment.
 

Hermanubis

*use skill, Thread Necromancy*

-Thread has been successfully revived-


-Your skill in Thread Necromancy has increased by 1.5%-
 
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Tom Veil

DMA said:
I wouldn't be too confident with the Japanese taking over Australia prior to the British. Afterall the Aboriginals might have something to say about the matter. Importantly, considering illnesses, like smallpox etc, won't be coming with the Japanese invaders, the Aboriginals won't have their population decimated unlike what happened when the British arrived. Added onto this, I dare say that whatever Japanese forces arrive, will be smaller than what the British. Combine that with no muskets & the like & the Japanese may not survive.
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First off, almost any post-medieval civilization could have wiped out the Aborigines with a hand tied behind its back -- they were over 4000 years behind technologically! Second, the Japanese had virtually the same germs as the English. Third, Japan has an even larger population base than Britain, so if it modernized sooner (the obvious POD for them reaching Australia), then they'd have a plenty large colonization base.
 

Admiral Matt

Here, here!

It is not that hard to beat up hunter-gatherers and take their land. Semi-nomadic peoples without agriculture, cultivation, or even herd animals tend to have extremely small populations spread out over vast areas. Australia is no exception. Anyone with 16th century technology who can get ships to the island will probably be able to settle it, regardless of what the locals do or how many succumb to disease.
 
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