Just a fun little idea I've been thinking about.

There are tons of threads about alternate Israels and other ATL countries that post-diaspora Jews could call their home. But there's one other common Euroamerican nation that is similarly the result of a (relatively) recent diaspora from Asia and is without its own country - the Romani.

So...

Let's say that, in contrast to OTL, a political/cultural movement in favour of permanent settlement emerges among the migrating Romani ethnicities during the early modern era. This movement is led by a small but growing ATL class of Roma nobility and scholars, who were inspired by the majority cultures (European, other Asian) they met during their travels, assimilating a lot of their ideas into their own pool of knowledge and customs. These higher-ups become advocates of abandoning a nomadic lifestyle and permanently settling an area viable as an independent country that they could govern themselves.

The movement is succesful and seems trustworthy enough to the older inhabitants of the continents the Roma frequent, so they eventually agree to grant the Roma some larger territory that has been deemed not economically exclusive enough or has been depopulated by an epidemic or war. The Roma agree and gradually settle there en masse (with only some of their populations on the specific continent sticking to a nomadic life). A country is eventually formed and becomes a proper nation state with its own unique mix of Romani and local traditions (in politics, culture, art, etc.). As already hinted at, this country can be located anywhere in Europe, Asia, Central America and South America*. (Even North America could maybe work, but I think it's less probable than the southern continents.)

So, where could this country be located and what events could lead to the granting of its land to this ATL settler movement ?

Though the scenario focuses primarily on a country founded by nomadic/migrating Roma, you can also found the country in northwestern India (particularly somewhere around Kashmir, in the general area of the nation's ancestral homeland). Also, their ATL nation state doesn't need to be Roma-exclusive by any means, they should just have an ethnic majority (at least 60 %). I'm thinking a reasonably multicultural country could work fairly well. A good OTL example is Suriname and Guyana, where most of the people are of Indian** ancestry (majority population), then black, mullato and local native ancestry (minorities).


(* - In OTL, some South American countries have a surprising number of descendants of Roma emigrants. Particularly Colombia.

** - This makes a South American Roma-majority state a fairly realistic choice, IMHO.)


P. S. Spare me of the jokes about Latveria or stereotypical fortune tellers. While this is a more lighthearted POD idea, I want to keep it realistic and serious enough.
 
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That's an interesting idea. I guess it could work in Colombia, or maybe somehow in the Balkans due to the high population there.
 
Well, in Europe it doesn't seem very realistic, unless the Romani in Romania, or somewhere similar, aligned themselves with some invading power against the Romanians, and massacred huge numbers of them, or exiled them from a certain area, until they had their own region.

More realistic, the Romani are shipped off to a less populated part of Australia or the Caribbean, or maybe even Alaska. Of course, with a 1500 POD, politics could vary greatly. Perhaps they could occupy some buffer zone between major powers which is actually quite habitable. Could be in Lousiana, Ecuador, wherever the hell.
 
That's an interesting idea. I guess it could work in Colombia, or maybe somehow in the Balkans due to the high population there.

I might use the idea of a "Grand Duchy of the Roma" or "Roma Republic" in my The Fox and the Lillies TL, that's why I'm asking. ;) It would be a relatively minor detail on the world map and world factbook of that TL (POD is back in 1395). But I like to add unusual and ATL-ish things in my TLs, so I've figured : Why not ? :D

Well, in Europe it doesn't seem very realistic, unless the Romani in Romania, or somewhere similar, aligned themselves with some invading power against the Romanians, and massacred huge numbers of them, or exiled them from a certain area, until they had their own region.

More realistic, the Romani are shipped off to a less populated part of Australia or the Caribbean, or maybe even Alaska. Of course, with a 1500 POD, politics could vary greatly. Perhaps they could occupy some buffer zone between major powers which is actually quite habitable. Could be in Lousiana, Ecuador, wherever the hell.

I agree on this, it's hard to do in Europe, even with a post-1500 timeframe. I, for one, don't think the Balkans are that realistic a choice, despite their traditionally high Romani populations. Too many already existing land disputes between the major nations, too much tension, etc. Not really all that viable in the long run, especially when the somewhat belated delineation of South Slavic nations rears its uglier head once European nationalism comes about. There won't be a time, place, nor political will to leave the Roma with their own polity.

Now, Eastern Europe, that would be a somewhat better possibility. Some abandoned/depopulated swathes of Ruthenia or the Ukrainian steppes within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or the Cossack lands could maybe work (though striking a deal with the Cossacks could be harder).

Still, the Americas would be the best long-term choice, land of the free and all that jazz... Plus, if Romani emigrants intermixed with natives (or just the mestizzo/mullato colonials), the cultural mixing could get nicely wacky, even when compared to OTL. :) A Carribbean nation of Romani would be funny as hell. :D I wonder how the need for seamanship could twist their lifestyle and cultural practices into weird new forms. :cool:


However, let's consider central and southwestern Asia as well. Would there be a nice and cosy place for a small Romani country there or do you think it would already be too occupied by 1500 AD ?


Incidentally, one other fun thing would be seeing more Christian Orthodox or Protestant Romani, since most of them converted to Roman Catholicism in OTL, regardless of where they live (though there might be Muslim Romani in parts of the Balkans, I'm not sure). Maybe the P-L Commonwealth having bigger Protestant populations and this would lead to Protestant Roma converts as well ? ;) :cool:
 
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