Challenge: Hindu Japan

rcduggan

I couldn't find this before, so here goes.

your challenge is to make Japan a predominantly Hindu nation by modern times, with no ASB (asteroid, etc) events. (it can be any sect as well, possibly a nonexistent one if necessary).

points for the later the POD is, but it can be any time before 1900.

go.
 

Brandonazz

Guatama Buddha becomes the spiritual leader of a Hindu subsect and travels to China.

A Hindu influenced Chinese political system is then adopted by the Japanese when they send the inspectors, to the Han IIRC. That could lead to a sort of mixed faith.
 

David bar Elias

You could change Tony Jones' "Gurkani Alam" timeline to have either the Mughals or the Dakshina Nad conquer Japan instead of the Russians in that world.

The challenge then would be to make the Japanese predominately Hindu (particularly if the Mughals conquer Japan, since many Japanese would convert to Islam instead). Perhaps a new hybrid-type faith emerges and spreads combining Shinto practices with certain Hindu philosophies. Eventually, it's recognized as another, distant branch of Hinduism.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Have the maritime Indian states be much more adventurous. IOTL they spread the Indian cultural zone out to Bali in the South and the Vietnamese border in the North.

ITTL, have them move out earlier to dominate even further flung areas, seeding Indianised kingdoms in the Philippines. Japan, in it's infancy is subjected to both Chinese and Indian influence and, more importantly, is locked into the Indian trade routes. Hinduism spreads in Japan and the caste system becomes intertwined with the Japanese class system.

ITTL, Japan doesn't become as isolated and isolationistic and Asia is divided into two major cultural zones- the Indianised thallasocracies, spreading from India in a great arc through SE Asia, Taiwan and Japan and the Continental Chinese zone from Vietnam to Korea.

Perhaps ITTL contact is made with the Polynesians and the entire Polynesian triangle from New Zealand to Hawaii to Rapa Nui feeds into the Indianised network.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Flocculencio said:
Have the maritime Indian states be much more adventurous. IOTL they spread the Indian cultural zone out to Bali in the South and the Vietnamese border in the North.

ITTL, have them move out earlier to dominate even further flung areas, seeding Indianised kingdoms in the Philippines. Japan, in it's infancy is subjected to both Chinese and Indian influence and, more importantly, is locked into the Indian trade routes.
Click to expand...
You're onto something here. It's not so much of a stretch for Hindu traders who already have a foothold in southern Vietnam to get to the Japanese archipelago. They could make Kyushu another Champa, and in the following centuries, Hindu culture could spread into Honshu, possibly as a reaction against the cultural hegemony of neighboring China during the Tang and Song dynasties. In TTL, Japan would end up using, rather than Sinograms, Sanskrit as the official script, and perhaps the Tamil script for trade and mundane purposes.

BTW, the state religion in Champa was the cult of Shiva. One wonders whether it could be transplanted as such in Japan...
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Hendryk said:
You're onto something here. It's not so much of a stretch for Hindu traders who already have a foothold in southern Vietnam to get to the Japanese archipelago. They could make Kyushu another Champa, and in the following centuries, Hindu culture could spread into Honshu, possibly as a reaction against the cultural hegemony of neighboring China during the Tang and Song dynasties. In TTL, Japan would end up using, rather than Sinograms, Sanskrit as the official script, and perhaps the Tamil script for trade and mundane purposes.

BTW, the state religion in Champa was the cult of Shiva. One wonders whether it could be transplanted as such in Japan...
Click to expand...

Nice one. Indian Cultural Crescent from Burma to Japan. I think we've done it :D

Interstingly enough this would mean that Japan wouldn't become an isolated backwater since the Indian cultural network it would be a part of was a very active maritime one.
 

rcduggan

Matthais Corvinus said:
The Japanese beat Hitler to the punch and decide to make the swastika their symbol? Simple, direct, and post 1900. Do I get any points?
Click to expand...
the Nazis didn't convert to Hinduism when they had the Swastika though, so why would the Japanese?

Hendryk said:
You're onto something here. It's not so much of a stretch for Hindu traders who already have a foothold in southern Vietnam to get to the Japanese archipelago. They could make Kyushu another Champa, and in the following centuries, Hindu culture could spread into Honshu, possibly as a reaction against the cultural hegemony of neighboring China during the Tang and Song dynasties. In TTL, Japan would end up using, rather than Sinograms, Sanskrit as the official script, and perhaps the Tamil script for trade and mundane purposes.

BTW, the state religion in Champa was the cult of Shiva. One wonders whether it could be transplanted as such in Japan...
Click to expand...

ooh, that's a good one. probably would work. :eek:

any ways for a post-1000 POD to make it work?
 

Ridwan Asher

Hendryk said:
You're onto something here. It's not so much of a stretch for Hindu traders who already have a foothold in southern Vietnam to get to the Japanese archipelago. They could make Kyushu another Champa, and in the following centuries, Hindu culture could spread into Honshu, possibly as a reaction against the cultural hegemony of neighboring China during the Tang and Song dynasties. In TTL, Japan would end up using, rather than Sinograms, Sanskrit as the official script, and perhaps the Tamil script for trade and mundane purposes.

BTW, the state religion in Champa was the cult of Shiva. One wonders whether it could be transplanted as such in Japan...
Click to expand...

Nice idea, Hendryk. However, that would raise one more curiosity. Travel from Champa to Japan is certainly doable, but for what cause ? Why would the Indians/othere Hindus go to Japan ? Even though maybe that they didn't arrive in Japan on purpose :)eek:) or didn't have any particular objective visiting there, why should they be brought by their journey there for whatever reason ? Maybe this won't be to hard, but I'm just curious... :eek:

Guess the real deal is about how to make the direct connection between Yamato Isles and Hindu civilizations. :) And this relationship should be started from something....
 
scourge

scourge

Matthais Corvinus said:
The Japanese beat Hitler to the punch and decide to make the swastika their symbol? Simple, direct, and post 1900. Do I get any points?
Click to expand...
The Nazis adopting the swastika as their symbol didn't make them hindus so the Japanese doing it wouldn't do anything in terms of conversion.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
R. I. Alsidecias said:
Nice idea, Hendryk. However, that would raise one more curiosity. Travel from Champa to Japan is certainly doable, but for what cause ? Why would the Indians/othere Hindus go to Japan ? Even though maybe that they didn't arrive in Japan on purpose :)eek:) or didn't have any particular objective visiting there, why should they be brought by their journey there for whatever reason ? Maybe this won't be to hard, but I'm just curious... :eek:

Guess the real deal is about how to make the direct connection between Yamato Isles and Hindu civilizations. :) And this relationship should be started from something....
Click to expand...

Originally they move up to trade for Chinese products and then Korean ones. They set up shipping bases and the like along the southern coastlines of Japan and Indian culture begins to spread.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
R. I. Alsidecias said:
Did they do that IOTL ?
Click to expand...

Nope- IOTL they didn't get much farther than Vietnam. I'm positing that they do in TTL. The POD could involve a strongly centralised early dynasty forbidding foreign voyaging, ensuring that Indian merchants would have to come to China to trade instead of meeting the Chinese halfway in SE Asia
 

Hendryk

Banned
Flocculencio said:
Originally they move up to trade for Chinese products and then Korean ones. They set up shipping bases and the like along the southern coastlines of Japan and Indian culture begins to spread.
Click to expand...
As an added bonus, could they also have a reason to set up outposts in the Philippines? One would end up with a nifty Hindu Arc that begins in India and follows south-east Asia's archipelagoes like so many dots. Incidentally, this would also create favorable conditions for the emergence of a Hindu thalassocracy.

A (very) rough estimate of Hinduism's cultural sphere of influence by the 12th century in TTL:

Hindu Arc.GIF
 

Fabilius

Hendryk said:
As an added bonus, could they also have a reason to set up outposts in the Philippines? One would end up with a nifty Hindu Arc that begins in India and follows south-east Asia's archipelagoes like so many dots. Incidentally, this would also create favorable conditions for the emergence of a Hindu thalassocracy.

A (very) rough estimate of Hinduism's cultural sphere of influence by the 12th century in TTL:
Click to expand...

This would be very interesting. We might even have muslims dropping by in Japan.

I´ve seen attempts of TL´s where arabs or indians end up colonizing east africa. But reaching Japan and Korea no.

I suppose they wouldn´t conquer it, it´s quite a distance. But maybe they could conquer the Ryuku, or gain one city in Japan and then slowly affect the culture of Japan.

My Ah.com clichéometer is already attempting to find ways to involve the early discovery of America and airships into it.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Hendryk said:
As an added bonus, could they also have a reason to set up outposts in the Philippines? One would end up with a nifty Hindu Arc that begins in India and follows south-east Asia's archipelagoes like so many dots. Incidentally, this would also create favorable conditions for the emergence of a Hindu thalassocracy.

A (very) rough estimate of Hinduism's cultural sphere of influence by the 12th century in TTL:
Click to expand...

Yes, that's sort of what I envisioned.

I think this Indianised cultural sphere would be very interesting. Asia would be clearly divided into two distinct cultural zones.

As for the thalassocracies, yes that is interesting. IOTL we already had great Indian and Indianised thalassocracies- Chera, Chola, Srivijaya and Majapahit. Perhaps ITTL this age starts earlier and lasts longer. Incidentally this also probably means the earlier presence of an extremely sophisticated maritime culture in the Indian and Western Pacific Oceans. Perhaps East Africa gets settled by Indians ITTL.
 
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