Challenge: Germanize Cisleithania and the Baltics

[Vnix]

I would like to post a challenge as how to Germanize the Baltic, meaning present day Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and the Austrian side of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Cisleithania ?

The Idea is to germanize the peoples of those lands to make them culturally and linguistically German to the point that its inhabitants consider themselves to be German and speak the German language?

The POD may not be before the Napoleonic Wars, bonus points if Saint Petersburg is also German, further bonus points if all Germans are united into one nation consisting of the borders of 1910 Germany, the present day Baltic states and 1910 Cisleithania.

 

[Iori]

Cisleithania is pretty easy, aside from all the Germans that lived their, the Slovenes were already Germanized and were basically as close to German as you could be without being, well, German, the Czechs could've easily been Germanized as well, considering they lived alongside Germans so long.

The two areas that'd be most difficult are Galicia (Poles and Ukrainians) and Dalmatia (Croatians and Serbs).

 

[kasumigenx]

For the Baltics, you need for the Luxembourgs to rule Poland by having the Kuyavian Piasts deposed making it friendly to the Teutonics and presumably the Luxembourgs also purchase back Pomerelia and Jogaila now has no choice but to marry an Orthodox Lady which would probably make parts of Lithuania or most of Lithuania proper absorbed by the Teutonic Order and then the area ruled by the Teutonic Order are Germanized then crush the hussites and settle the Bohemia with Germans you got it most of OTL Cisleithania is germanized except for Galicia and Dalmatia.

 

[Larus Marinus]

It's absolutely impossible no matter how you look at it to Germanize the Baltics with a Napoleonic PoD. At best, you can maintain the German upper class there if you somehow get the Russians to leave.

You'd need a PoD way back in the middle ages for widespread Germanization of the Baltics to occur, and even then it's not very likely in the case of Lithuania and most of Livonia.

 

[Monty Burns]

It's absolutely impossible no matter how you look at it to Germanize the Baltics with a Napoleonic PoD. At best, you can maintain the German upper class there if you somehow get the Russians to leave.

You'd need a PoD way back in the middle ages for widespread Germanization of the Baltics to occur, and even then it's not very likely in the case of Lithuania and most of Livonia.

To be fair, the Baltics have a rather low population number. If you'd somehow manage to unite Germany into a liberal federal state and annex the Baltics in the early 19th century and have Germany keep them, they'd likely be heavily Germanized like the Sorbs IOTL, thus they'd still maintain a separate ethnic identity with an own language, but generally consider themselves as German citizens and speak German fluently.

To be fair, I doubt that you get more from the Slovenes or Czechs.

 

[Larus Marinus]

I don't think you could eliminate centuries of mutual bad blood and enmity between two cultural groups that easily, especially not at the dawn of the age of romantic nationalism. You'd have to severely curtail the rights and privileges of the Livonian nobility to appease the lower classes...Which, granted, wouldn't be too far-fetched in a liberal Frankfurt Parliament-style Germany. The problem would be that by doing this, you'd also alienate most of the Germans in Livonia, and strengthen the native national identity already present in those territories in the process. Heck, I think the German nobles would rather stay with/go back to Russia than join a Liberal Germany opposed to practically everything they stand for.

Honestly, the native population of Livonia are more likely to become *Swedes* than Germans.

 

[Monty Burns]

Honestly, the native population of Livonia are more likely to become *Swedes* than Germans.

That's true. But if Germany gets those territories, keeps them long enough and doesn't treat them bad, they'll adopt German as a second language and get used to being part of Germany.

Granted, if the Russians and Soviets had treated them better and was economically more successful, they likely would still be part of Russia.

It's just a question of getting used to favourable circumstances. And in neither case the result would be full "Germanization" or "Russification".