Cook
Banned
I have the nasty feeling you’d end up with an “adaptation” like the American versions of “Life on Mars” (Bad), and “Kath and Kim” (Appalling).
Challenge: Doctor Who popular in the United States
- Thread starter BlackWave
- Start date
I have the nasty feeling you’d end up with an “adaptation” like the American versions of “Life on Mars” (Bad), and “Kath and Kim” (Appalling).
Well no matter what they did, the fans of the original would detest any American version, look no further than the reaction at the casting of an American in the role of The Master from the tv movie if you want proof of that.
Really, in the time period in question, my expectation is that the adaptations would be theatrical. That is, American Dr. Who films. Whether that's worse than a tv show is anyone's guess.
usertron2020
Donor
G-Rated, Y-7 only
Folks, to one and all on both sides of the pond: You are wasting your time. I saw a Black British comedian doing his own one hour comedy special (BBC I think) that was rebroadcast in the US. His brilliant sketches included a "Dr. Who" episode in which HE was the latest incarnation of The Doctor! It did a MAJOR number on some of the routines of Dr. Who. One was when they found themselves in trouble the "Doctor's" solution was "I know! We'll run down lots of corridors!"
The answer why Dr. Who would never be a success here? It's to be found in the ending of that "Dr. Who" sketch. The "Doctor", as he often does, has a very beautiful companion. She makes a PASS at The Doctor! The Doctor, VERY self-consciously, asks her: "Mandy? What are you talking about??" Mandy: "What do you mean, Doctor? I'm a woman, you're a man." The Doctor:"MANDY!! Aren't you forgetting something?" Waving his arms around the set, "THIS IS A CHILDREN'S SHOW!
Message to all you Whovians out there: With a G-rating Y-7 rating there's only so much you can do. In America you can get away with exposing our children to levels of violence reaching Manga proportions, but we here are a land of the Cowboy and the Puritan. If you can't save the schoolmarm from a fate worse than death, then SHOOT the schoolmarm! Seem ridiculous? Then watch what was probably John Wayne's greatest film in terms of his acting and the one he SHOULD have gotten the Oscar for. "The Searchers". See it.
Dr. Who was a very violent series but very namby pamby on adult issues. The nearest comparison for American audiences would, I think, be "Lost In Space". I'm lucky I was too young (4-7) to absorb the saccharin in that show. But "Lost In Space" never had the writing of Dr. Who. It also only lasted 3 years and only the first season is considered true sci-fi. The last two were dreck.
Folks, to one and all on both sides of the pond: You are wasting your time. I saw a Black British comedian doing his own one hour comedy special (BBC I think) that was rebroadcast in the US. His brilliant sketches included a "Dr. Who" episode in which HE was the latest incarnation of The Doctor! It did a MAJOR number on some of the routines of Dr. Who. One was when they found themselves in trouble the "Doctor's" solution was "I know! We'll run down lots of corridors!"
The answer why Dr. Who would never be a success here? It's to be found in the ending of that "Dr. Who" sketch. The "Doctor", as he often does, has a very beautiful companion. She makes a PASS at The Doctor!
The Doctor, VERY self-consciously, asks her: "Mandy? What are you talking about??" Mandy: "What do you mean, Doctor? I'm a woman, you're a man." The Doctor:"MANDY!! Aren't you forgetting something?" Waving his arms around the set, "THIS IS A CHILDREN'S SHOW!Message to all you Whovians out there: With a G-rating Y-7 rating there's only so much you can do. In America you can get away with exposing our children to levels of violence reaching Manga proportions, but we here are a land of the Cowboy and the Puritan. If you can't save the schoolmarm from a fate worse than death, then SHOOT the schoolmarm! Seem ridiculous? Then watch what was probably John Wayne's greatest film in terms of his acting and the one he SHOULD have gotten the Oscar for. "The Searchers". See it.
Dr. Who was a very violent series but very namby pamby on adult issues. The nearest comparison for American audiences would, I think, be "Lost In Space". I'm lucky I was too young (4-7) to absorb the saccharin in that show. But "Lost In Space" never had the writing of Dr. Who. It also only lasted 3 years and only the first season is considered true sci-fi. The last two were dreck.
DISSIDENT
Banned
I like the new doctors actually. Particularly Eccleston as the Doctor Having Vietnam/Time War Flashbacks and macking it with Rose.
And in answer to Cook, I am cynical and I usually wear black clothing and brood and make sardonic remarks with occasional rants if threatened or angry and I smile when I think I'm going to die.
When the main activist kid in the anarcho punk collective I was in not entirely by choice was arguing with me, I actually did quote the Star One speech Avon gave to Blake to him.
You can plot with me, but I have a sneaking suspicion already that somehow, some way, you work for Servalan and are going to double cross me as per all of the 4th season. I'll survive it...but Vila may not.
And in answer to Cook, I am cynical and I usually wear black clothing and brood and make sardonic remarks with occasional rants if threatened or angry and I smile when I think I'm going to die.
When the main activist kid in the anarcho punk collective I was in not entirely by choice was arguing with me, I actually did quote the Star One speech Avon gave to Blake to him.
You can plot with me, but I have a sneaking suspicion already that somehow, some way, you work for Servalan and are going to double cross me as per all of the 4th season. I'll survive it...but Vila may not.
Did I hear Blake's 7 fans? And Avon and Vila ones too?
Here's some stuff for ye all (spoilers for those who are watching my movie nights, since we've only got up to the first third of Series 2 right now with Episode 5 of Series 2 coming up on Sunday) Ah, memories....
The Story of Avon and Blake
Series 1 Trailer (couldn't find one without new CGI though)
Series 2 Trailer
Series 3 Trailer
Series 4 (couldn't find a proper trailer, so this video has to suffice, WARNING: contains very major and story enjoyment killing spoilers if you haven't seen the whole series before!
Compilation of Avon's Insults and Jibes
Dystopian, but generally well written and jolly good fun all round.
As for making Doctor Who more popular in the mainstream overseas...hmmm, could be tricky. It was a children's show after all, but with darkness thrown in. Peculiarly British in many respects, but some would say that is what makes it popular amongst some outside of Blighty.
Sargon
Here's some stuff for ye all (spoilers for those who are watching my movie nights, since we've only got up to the first third of Series 2 right now with Episode 5 of Series 2 coming up on Sunday) Ah, memories....
The Story of Avon and Blake
Series 1 Trailer (couldn't find one without new CGI though)
Series 2 Trailer
Series 3 Trailer
Series 4 (couldn't find a proper trailer, so this video has to suffice, WARNING: contains very major and story enjoyment killing spoilers if you haven't seen the whole series before!
Compilation of Avon's Insults and Jibes
Dystopian, but generally well written and jolly good fun all round.
As for making Doctor Who more popular in the mainstream overseas...hmmm, could be tricky. It was a children's show after all, but with darkness thrown in. Peculiarly British in many respects, but some would say that is what makes it popular amongst some outside of Blighty.
Sargon
DISSIDENT
Banned
Haha, yeah I've seen those.
The dystopian aspect of Blakes 7 was half the fun. Show trials, mind control drugs, Servalan's military coup, the resistance fighting amongst themselves as much as against the Federation.
It was an excellent show. Arguably better and more realistic than any Star Trek which it was intended to be the antithesis of. Terry Nation's idea was that Star Trek was Federation propaganda and Blakes 7 would be what the Federation was really like to live in.
Avon and Vila were my favorites. Blake was interesting, with his revolutionary fanaticism and whatever happened to him between Star One and the final episode. Servalan was awesome and evil. Stalin in high fashion. Tarrant was an asshole, but watching him and Avon square off could be cool.
They're actually finally going through with the remake/revival in Britain too. They did audio versions of the new Blakes 7 as a preview and I downloaded them. Good stuff. An actress from Babylon 5: Crusade is playing Jenna. No more teleport in the new version, the Liberator has shuttles instead.
The dystopian aspect of Blakes 7 was half the fun. Show trials, mind control drugs, Servalan's military coup, the resistance fighting amongst themselves as much as against the Federation.
It was an excellent show. Arguably better and more realistic than any Star Trek which it was intended to be the antithesis of. Terry Nation's idea was that Star Trek was Federation propaganda and Blakes 7 would be what the Federation was really like to live in.
Avon and Vila were my favorites. Blake was interesting, with his revolutionary fanaticism and whatever happened to him between Star One and the final episode. Servalan was awesome and evil. Stalin in high fashion. Tarrant was an asshole, but watching him and Avon square off could be cool.
They're actually finally going through with the remake/revival in Britain too. They did audio versions of the new Blakes 7 as a preview and I downloaded them. Good stuff. An actress from Babylon 5: Crusade is playing Jenna. No more teleport in the new version, the Liberator has shuttles instead.
Aye, it was pretty damn good, and I've enjoyed it ever since it first came out. I think the characterisation was excellent for the most part and the realism of the situation was helped by things going wrong and the crew ending up with various defeats and disasters along the way. Yeah, the special effects weren't great, even for the time, but the stories were. The moral ambiguity of it all is what stands out, when you basically realise the protagonists you the viewer are supporting are basically terrorists, and then later on little more than space pirates. Maybe that's a reason why British SF has trouble taking off elsewhere. It's bloody miserable, and the ambiguity is too much perhaps.
I was aware that SKY were supposed to be doing a new Blake's 7. I'm very interested and eager to watch it, but I feel a little disappointed they've left out the teleporters. Liberator is supposed to be a supership with tech the Federation doesn't possess damn it, that's the whole idea and why Servalan and the Federation want their hands on it so badly (apart from disposing of the rebels of course). Plus I want it.
Sargon
DISSIDENT
Banned
Yeah. The terrorist/freedom fighter dichotomy was an interesting aspect. In the show, Blake had already lead a revolution on Earth before they brainwashed him and the descriptions of that sounded terrorist in nature. I remember at the rebel meeting in the first episode they were talking about bombing food supplies to cause food shortages which is a terrorist tactic. Alot of the other rebel cells we see on the show, like the one in the episode where they go to Earth to attack the computer control center or the episode where Avon goes to kill that torturer Shrinker seemed pretty violent and militant. Blake and Cally were the only truly ideologically committed revolutionaries on the ship. Gan was with them but not always in agreement with Blake's methods and Avon and Vila were just out to make fast money and not go back to Cygnus Alpha.
Season three was the real piracy stuff, though, if you think about it. The Andromedans tore the Federation a new one, Servalan seized power but had to fight to keep it and the Federation basically collapsed. Blake disappeared and Avon and Tarrant both wanted to use the Liberator for personal profit and building their own interstellar criminal empire.
Season 4 was basically the Liberator had been destroyed and Cally killed and that combined with finding out his ex had betrayed him started slowly driving Avon violently insane. The Federation was regaining lost territory with mind control drugs so Avon started trying to make an anti-Federation alliance out of independent planets and scientists, thus ironically making him the new revolutionary figurehead he had castigated Blake for being. He never seemed to really believe it, more just wanted to not get killed by Servalan and he started getting more dangerous, like when he tried to kill Vila or what he did in the final episode.
Season three was the real piracy stuff, though, if you think about it. The Andromedans tore the Federation a new one, Servalan seized power but had to fight to keep it and the Federation basically collapsed. Blake disappeared and Avon and Tarrant both wanted to use the Liberator for personal profit and building their own interstellar criminal empire.
Season 4 was basically the Liberator had been destroyed and Cally killed and that combined with finding out his ex had betrayed him started slowly driving Avon violently insane. The Federation was regaining lost territory with mind control drugs so Avon started trying to make an anti-Federation alliance out of independent planets and scientists, thus ironically making him the new revolutionary figurehead he had castigated Blake for being. He never seemed to really believe it, more just wanted to not get killed by Servalan and he started getting more dangerous, like when he tried to kill Vila or what he did in the final episode.
Cook
Banned
"To fight off that fleet until the Federation get here?" Vila is appalled.
Avon: "That is what I promised."
"Avon, this is stupid!" Vila cries
"When did that ever stop us?"
The final episode of the second season, "Star One" is some of the best tv drama I’ve ever seen. Forget about the low budget special effects, this was back when science fiction had to rely on a story to entertain, not just flashy lights.
The Doctor:"MANDY!! Aren't you forgetting something?" Waving his arms around the set, "THIS IS A CHILDREN'S SHOW!
Well, apparently they've tried doing things like that with the modern Dr. Who, adding things like a bisexual character and the like, and it's still not doing well.
The problem is, I haven't been able to see it because my local PBS station doesn't show it in a convenient prime-time slot, and the Brits won't let me see the shows on-line because they're too old by the time they reach here.
There's your answer. If you want Dr. Who to be popular in the United States, and by that I mean the British Dr. Who, not an Americanized interpretation of spinoff, you need to give PBS a little bit more control over local stations back in the 1970's, so that they can dictate standard, national schedules like on all of the "commercial" stations. Then, they put Dr. Who in a regular timeslot in some weekday night primetime slot, instead of late at night, or Saturday afternoons, or weird things like that, and make sure that *every* PBS station in the country shows it at that time (Yes, I know, that's not how PBS works). Then, you'd need someone to pay for "marketing" the show beyond just word of mouth and sci-fi conventions, etc.
Because it's British and not American, CBS, ABC and NBC aren't going to buy it and show it at all back in the 1970's. And in the 1990's or later, the only way they'll do it is if they recreate it as an American show, with American filming and narrative standards. Isn't that what Fox tried to do with that Dr. Who television movie back in the early 1990's?
How's Torchwood doing in the US ? That's the Dr Who spin-off that is aimed at an adult (in the UK post-watershed) audience. The cast is headed up by Capt Jack.
Interesting. Something like that killed off the classic Dr Who. Mind you, that was done by a BBC DG who didn't like the show.
What TV Movie ? Are you posting from some dystopic timeline where Fox tried to remake Dr Who ?
Cheers,
Nigel.
