Challenge: Denmark

Your challenge is, to have Denmark-Norway keep more of its territory than OTL, specifically:

- The Scanian lands (the provinces of Scania, Halland and Blekinge)
- The two duchies Slesvig and Holsten (or Slesvig-Holsten)

Bonus points if Estonia is included. Extra bonus points, if you can keep the Kalmar Union together (meaning Sweden stays in the Union). MASSIVE bonus, if all this lasts into the 21st century.

POD: The formation of the Kalmar Union

PS: I'm not asking for a über-Denmark-wank, so no England-grabbing necessary :D
 
Your challenge is, to have Denmark-Norway keep more of its territory than OTL, specifically:

- The Scanian lands (the provinces of Scania, Halland and Blekinge)
- The two duchies Slesvig and Holsten (or Slesvig-Holsten)

Bonus points if Estonia is included. Extra bonus points, if you can keep the Kalmar Union together (meaning Sweden stays in the Union). MASSIVE bonus, if all this lasts into the 21st century.

POD: The formation of the Kalmar Union

PS: I'm not asking for a über-Denmark-wank, so no England-grabbing necessary :D

Look, you can have the Danes reclaim Scania any time in the early 18th century (especially around 1718 when Sweden got her ass handed to her once the Danish-Russo-Polish Alliance put an end to her efforts to make all the shores of the Baltic Sea Swedish) if you just make sure that when the Danish troops retreat from Scania in the late 1670s they don't adopt the attitude "if we can't have the wealth of Scania's farmland, then the Swedes sure shall not have it!" and start burning farms and houses of poor innocent Scanian peasants who up until that point had felt strong allegiance to the Danish Crown. After that, it was quite hard for the Danes to ignite any support among the Scanian commoners for any proposed reconquest of the province.
 
Your challenge is, to have Denmark-Norway keep more of its territory than OTL, specifically:

- The Scanian lands (the provinces of Scania, Halland and Blekinge)
- The two duchies Slesvig and Holsten (or Slesvig-Holsten)

Bonus points if Estonia is included. Extra bonus points, if you can keep the Kalmar Union together (meaning Sweden stays in the Union). MASSIVE bonus, if all this lasts into the 21st century.

POD: The formation of the Kalmar Union

PS: I'm not asking for a über-Denmark-wank, so no England-grabbing necessary

Just for clarification: are you requiring us to have a PoD at the formation of the Kalmar Union?

Because, personally, I think much of it could be done with a much later PoD.

For example, similar to what Makemakean said, a Sweden-screw at almost any point in the 1600's could easily result in Denmark keeping at least the Scanian lands. You could tweak the Northern War a little bit, and easily prevent the Treaty of Roskilde from happening. Any tweaking of any of the Polish-Swedish Wars in Poland's favor might also undermine Sweden's rise to power and give Denmark-Norway a solid window of opportunity.

The best PoD might be to somehow pull off a Danish victory in the Torstenson War (or eliminate it altogether) in the 1640's. This would let Denmark keep Øsel, Gotland and all the lands on the Sound. Keeping it that way until the 21st century is another matter, but there's a reasonable chance that Denmark-Norway will at least keep some of that land.
 
Because, personally, I think much of it could be done with a much later PoD.

The best PoD might be to somehow pull off a Danish victory in the Torstenson War (or eliminate it altogether) in the 1640's. This would let Denmark keep Øsel, Gotland and all the lands on the Sound. Keeping it that way until the 21st century is another matter, but there's a reasonable chance that Denmark-Norway will at least keep some of that land.

Like having Christian 4 be clear cut in his orders following Kolberger Heide or sacking Peder Galt following the action or rather inaction on July 29 or 30 leaving the Swedish navy is blockaded in Kiel Fiord withering away; with it the Swedish army. ;)
 
Just a question : scanians are considered as a danish people or sweden under danish crown?

I don't think it mattered so much in 1600 or at any time prior the Revolutions. However, AFAIK they were considered fully Danes. The dialect they spoke was (and I think still is) closer to Danish than Swedish.
 
...(and I think still is) closer to Danish than Swedish.
That depends on who you ask (and arguably which dialect).
Several Scanians are supposedly certain it is.
Several Danes have claimed that spoken Swedish from unspecified other parts of Sweden is in fact easier to understand, hinting at similar difficulties in understanding (some) Scanian (dialects) to those expressed by other Swedes.

I've been lead to believe that there is some overlap between "believes his
Scanian dialect is closer to Danish" and "speaks a Scanian dialect unintelligible to Danes", but that might be a stereotype.

I vaguely recall Scania being considered eastern Denmark, and more in the
way it is now southern Sweden than in the way Finland was eastern
Sweden.
 
Maybe if Charles X hadnt had ice to walk on straight to the capital of Denmark over the Belt.

Or if Charles XI hadnt returned just in time at Lund to save the swedish army

Or if Stenbock had lost the battle in 1709
 
Turning to Slesvig and Holste(i)n...

This map shows the Denmark areas in Orange and Light Green, supposedly in 1219. What happened with their Pomeranian lands (the light green)? Teutonic Order? Hansa?

250px-Scandinavia1219.png
 
Turning to Slesvig and Holste(i)n...

This map shows the Denmark areas in Orange and Light Green, supposedly in 1219. What happened with their Pomeranian lands (the light green)? Teutonic Order? Hansa?

The Empire IIRC "took" control in the late 1220s. During Freddy 2's reign anyway.

Butterfly that and you strengthen Denmark and perhaps prevent a Kalmar type. Swearland-Gotarland might still unify with Norway but keep Denmark out and they can maintain at least a portion of Scania as Danish.
 
The Empire IIRC "took" control in the late 1220s. During Freddy 2's reign anyway.

Butterfly that and you strengthen Denmark and perhaps prevent a Kalmar type. Swearland-Gotarland might still unify with Norway but keep Denmark out and they can maintain at least a portion of Scania as Danish.

Following that Saxony was the major partner in the Crusades on the south Baltic shore; even as Denmark got these areas the abduction of Valdemar II 1223 and his son young Valdemar by Count Henrt Lion of Schwerin resulted in Valdemar as part of his ransom had to cede his Baltic coast areas - those not having rebelled on their own during his captivity. That was part of the text in the wiki article containing the map. ;)

This way you would have to butterfly away the abduction which opens up new paths described on some other webpage. :D
 
I know that Louise of Hesse-Kassel had the big issue of the Danish succession surrounding her, especially from her childhood. Her son and mother renounced their rights to her, who renounced them in turn to her husband, who became Charles IX.


But, most curiously, I am wondering if Holstein and Schleswig can be maintained, if say, a more German, or even German leading family takes the Danish throne. The Kassels of Hesse immediately come to mind. Scania seems a bit harder... but working in modern history, I think the duchies could be maintained. Prussia will be rattle her sabers, yes... but perhaps can be convinced to do so without taking Schleswig-Holstein. One idea might be a civil war between factions? If Austria and Prussia face different sides, it'd be a way to make things more difficult. Perhaps with Prussia supporting Frederick VII's will (perhaps altered with a clause that Prussia should aid in the administration of the Duchies) with the Austrians supporting the Hesse's of Kassel along with the idea that the Duchies would be tied to Denmark in a federal union with their own diet and language rights...


I'd write a bit more but it's 8am and I haven't slept. Not to mention being alert hurts your head even more.
 
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