Challenge: Delay WW2 as much as possible

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Deleted member 67076

With a POD of 1914, you're challenge is to delay the second World War (but it must still happen) for as long as possible. Combatants need not be on the same side, nor have the same victors, but Britain, Germany, France and the Soviet Union/Russia must be combatants.
 
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Why do people always seem to nick my ideas. I was going to put this up this afternoon a different POD though. 1936.
 
Delay World War I. World War I set in motion the entire century, including World War II. If you delay World War I, and have something else spark it, you probably change World War II, if it even happens.
 
This is fairly easy, kill off Hitler during the war, and have a more successful Stresemann bring Europe closer together out of mutual antagonism towards the Soviet Union and the need for greater economic cooperation. Subsequently have both the Soviets and Europeans develop nuclear weapons within several years of each other, maintaining MAD for decades.

Until early 2013, when an Able Archer style malfunction leads to one side believing the other has launched a first strike, and there's no Stanislav Petrov to calm things down.
 
My take:

Germany never goes "full retard" with Zimmerman telegram and unrestricted submarine warfare.

U.S., through other technicalities, perhaps sinkings, enters the war 6 months later. Germany gets good forward positions in 1918 and digs in, but cannot knock France out of the war. Germany fights the Allies in a slow retreat to the Rhine. Their navy never mutinies. Germany signs an armistice in the Fall of 1919, the terms are much less harsh but it cedes significant German territory in the west. Germany loses much of its gains from Brest-Livtosk, but retains Danzig and German-speaking areas in modern-day Poland.

The Weimar Republic, in some other form takes shape during the 20s and falls to a military despot in 1934, who models his administration on Mussolini's. He has dreams of a "restored Germania." WIthout the Versailles Treaty, the German military and economy is in a better position. The Germans have a much more impressive, though decrepid, Baltic fleet that is no match for the British but can do just fine against Russia.

Germany prepares for WW2 with a WW1 mindset. They fruitlessly build up their navy, using tons of resources. They take a keen interest in tanks, seeing how successfully that technology pushed them to the Rhine in 1919. They also build up an airforce, who is led by Erhard Milch.

Germany begins by annexing Austria, but cannot annex back German territories in the west without resistance. Germany then moves onto Czechoslovakia, which pretty much starts an arms build-up in Europe.

In 1941, RUssia has begun a war in FInland and in 1942, occupied the Baltic states. The Western Allies have already taken over Narvik, but the Finns have already sued for peace. The USSR and the west are very distrustful of one another. The USSR begins a costly war with Poland.

Feeling contained on all sides, Germany feels that their window of opportunity to act will be lost, so immediately they begin a surprise attack. Though the push back the French and overrun most of Belgium, it becomes a slugging match. THe Germans do adapt, and eventually overrun the French in 1944. THe Italians, at the last moment, do the same. At this time, Stalin has overrun ROmania, putting Germany in a precarious situation when it comes to their fuel situation.

The U.S. defeats Japan by 1945, the Germans attack Russia. Both the Germans and Americans develop atomic weapons by 1946*. Germany uses them to defeat Russia, but being that there is no blitz in this timeline, Great Britain immediately sues for peace.

There is now a new cold war...


nationalistic, but not anti-semitic Germany, would have not scared away EInstein and would have likely built the A-bomb before the United States, or about the same time.
 
Germany gets good forward positions in 1918 and digs in, but cannot knock France out of the war. Germany fights the Allies in a slow retreat to the Rhine. Their navy never mutinies. Germany signs an armistice in the Fall of 1919
Not unless they somehow manage to break the British blockade, they don't...
 
Not unless they somehow manage to break the British blockade, they don't...

I was under the impression that socialist uprisings started the mutiny.

Okay, one more POD, the Germans don't order the navy into a suicidal attack against the British.
 
in fact germany not going full retard, or even using some common sense could lead to a (semi) victory for them.

If the germans do not provoke the the us, then relations between the entente and the us will continue to degrade over the the blockade issue (remember the us wanted to be able to trade). I do not expect the us to become a central, but if the us stays neutral, this will mean no unsecured loans for the entente. Which means the entente will run out of cash by mid 1917, when that happens a negotiated peace is just a matter of time.


the whole situation might lead to red france (or authoritarian) which seeks active war with germany later.
Expect british and french versions of the dolchstoß legend to appear.
the french one blaming probably the british, the british one blaming the americans.
 
I have to agree with the sentiment that delaying WW1 inevitably delays WW2. But, for fun, let's assume ww1 goes off when it did.

However, a different ending to a war with less reparations might lessen the Great Depression. A war with a German victory might make a worse depression if France has to pay worse reparations, which is incredibly unlikely.
 

Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
UK avoids or delays entry into WW1

Result being early defeat of France and German victory in the East.

Best case - assume French defeat in early 1915 followed by relatively lenient peace terms (say Belgium puppetised, minor losses in Lorraine to Germany, possibly some gains in Africa and Polynesia for the Germans). UK acts as intermediary in arranging peace terms.

Russia and Germany / Austria go head to head with OTL result. Russian revolution confined to rump Russia.

Communism is ideaology of choice in post war Europe - contained (barely) in France (civil war?) and revanchist communist Russia rises in East based around Ural resources. Ukraine eventually slips out of Austrian control (perhaps when Austria is destabilised by leftist nationalist supported by Russia). Anschluss with Russia. Nuclear weapons discovered

Multipolar Cold War along the OTL USSR / Poland / Romania borders with brushfire proxy wars in Souterh Europe (Greece, Italy, Spain)

No WW2
 
Quibble: anschluss of the Ukraine with Russia would not be supported by Ukrainian nationalists, even leftist ones, and a Russian invasion probably triggers WWII in itself.

Bruce
 
With a POD of 1914, you're challenge is to delay the second World War (but it must still happen) for as long as possible. Combatants need not bee on the same side, nor have the same victors, but Britain, Germany, France and the Soviet Union/Russia must be combatants.

1923. 1975. I WIN.

Well, not really I guess, since Britain is involved, but indirectly due to the civil war.
 
With a POD of 1914, you're challenge is to delay the second World War (but it must still happen) for as long as possible. Combatants need not bee on the same side, nor have the same victors, but Britain, Germany, France and the Soviet Union/Russia must be combatants.

1) POD in 1914?

2) One PoD only?

3) Has to be a "Second World War"?

One probable limit: the development of nuclear bombs. Once those are around, there won't be any more Great Power hot wars. (There might be one.)

Atomic fission, chain reactions, and the possibility of nuclear bombs were being widely discussed by OTL 1940. I don't know how long after that the Bomb can be delayed.

It's possible that some consensus prevents work on the Bomb for a while, plus the practical difficulties. But if nations are hostile enough to fight a major war, they'll break that consensus.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
1) POD in 1914?

2) One PoD only?

3) Has to be a "Second World War"?

One probable limit: the development of nuclear bombs. Once those are around, there won't be any more Great Power hot wars. (There might be one.)

Atomic fission, chain reactions, and the possibility of nuclear bombs were being widely discussed by OTL 1940. I don't know how long after that the Bomb can be delayed.

It's possible that some consensus prevents work on the Bomb for a while, plus the practical difficulties. But if nations are hostile enough to fight a major war, they'll break that consensus.

It costs a hell of a lot of money to create a Nuclear weapon, at least develop one. A lot of nations aren't going to waste that kind of cash in peace time. Chemical weapons on the other hand.

But I've actually been thinking of a TL where WW2 starts in 1950.

Goring takes over in 1936 and doesn't go to WW2 instead contenting with doing some cold war type stuff against the soviets, until in 1950 growing tensions occur and a war breaks out. Probably instigated by Heydrich. And a far worse WW2 occurs with larger casualties and chemical weapons.
 
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flaris

Banned
Well maybe the POD could be that Hitler doesn't get the crazy doctor that doses him with Meth for every problem means that Hitler isn't so crazy. He then doesn't fuck up the Germanys economy as much and doesn't rearm as fast. He still takes all of the gains but stops just before Poland.

Then Italy goes Retard and gets caught up in a war in the Balkans which gets the UK and France against them. Hitler tells the W-allies unless they want Germany attacking as well they must give up Poland.

Germany then grabs Poland and annexes the western Third of it and makes it a puppet. Germany then could 'help' the Western allies by invading Italy and then grabbing South Tyrol and maybe a connection to the Med. He also puppets Italy (and France and the UK can grab the Colonies)

Hitler then satisfied for the moment spends time until the 50s germanizing the captured lands and extending Germanys influence over the balkans before he goes ATTACK THE EAST!
 
Well I guess I am breaking the rules by not using a 1914 POD but a 1939 POD instead.

Delaying WWII is easy - Poland roles over and gives in to Germany's demands in 1939, then what? Or if you want to be a little more out of the box, in the summer of 1939 there is a pro-Nazi coup in Poland and Poland becomes Nazi Germany's first "minor ally" before Bulgaria, Hungary, Finland, and Romania.
 

Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
Thats a huge dufference. Also Alternate history does not just mean mirrored history.

No, I agree.

But as we saw recently there is a significant Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine and without the Soviet inspired famine of the twenties or the Revolutionary war with Russia it is not impossible to imagine a similar subverting of a Ukrainian state which had recently rebelled against Austrian rule.
 
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