Challenge: defuse the LBJ-RFK feud

There are two PODs to choose from: July 8, 1960 and November 22, 1963. By "defuse" I mean "Korea", not "Versailles". Bonus if RFK becomes VP in 1964 and Double Bonus if LBJ dies before January 1967, which gives RFK the opportunity to be a two-termer.

I know this is tough, but it is not ASB. It is impossible after January 25, 1967. I'll explain why later.
 
RFK doesn't go and try to talk LBJ out of the VP nomination.
Boom!
As for the rest of the challenge, I'm not quite sure, I'm not very good at plausibly predicting butterflies.
 
The Civil Rights Act could bring them together -- maybe Bobby approaches LBJ about a strategy to get it through, butter up the latter's ego a little?
 
LoyCol has solved Part I, namely everything up to January 20, 1961. The problem is that LBJ is VP, RFK is DPOTUS. That is not going to change. Another problem, which only an ASB can alter, is their oil-and-water personalities. So any minor irritant is going to become a major issues, particularly since both are extremely vindictive towards their enemies. Not for nothing Joe Sr. once said of Bobby: "he hates like me".
 
LoyCol has solved Part I, namely everything up to January 20, 1961. The problem is that LBJ is VP, RFK is DPOTUS. That is not going to change. Another problem, which only an ASB can alter, is their oil-and-water personalities. So any minor irritant is going to become a major issues, particularly since both are extremely vindictive towards their enemies. Not for nothing Joe Sr. once said of Bobby: "he hates like me".

Hmmm.... this is difficult.

Could you perhaps make Ethel and Lady Bird close friends? It won't defuse the issue, but it might force them to become more civil toward each other. I really cannot find anything about their OTL relatioshipe.


Perhaps their hunting trip could go a little better. Can Robert do anythng to impress LBJ?
 
Yes. Not getting knocked flat on his back by the recoil of a rifle that was far too high-calibre for deer hunting. RFK cut his eye and LBJ had to help him up. That wasn't the most humiliating part, it was: "Sonny, you have to learn how to handle a gun like a man." Weird because that's the only time I heard of RFK having firearms issues- in Africa he bagged as many kills as TR- lions, rhinos, you name it with rifles much heavier than that one. Once even successfully facing down a lion when the rifle jammed, another time unarmed.

Re Ethel/Lady Bird: not going to work. It really boils down to a culture clash, of "hicks v. sophisticates" that everyone except JFK shared in. Ironic because LBJ was just as wealthy as the Kennedys. A similar comparison would be Dubya/Kerry. At the few Hickory Hill parties to which the Johnsons were invited (their names were crossed off the master guest list)- they were at the "losers table".
 
What changes Jan 1967? I guess you don't need to spoil it...

Ahem... once LoyCol's POD happens, when JFK gets shot, assuming he still does, he gets critically wounded, not killed. LBJ is sworn in just in as President since JFK is down and out but still breathing. LBJ and RFK fly in to Houston, getting there minutes before JFK's passing. They bond over JFK's passing moments, and in honor of his memory, LBJ chooses RFK as his running mate in '64? How's that? A little far fetched? Could make it that JFK's dying wish if for RFK to be nominated VP.

Eh?
 
I can see a better relationship but I can't see RFK as VP. LBJ said he had to win it on his own. The tribute to JFK at the 1964 Democratic convention was scheduled after the vice presidential vote to avoid a sentimental drive to put Bobby on the ticket.
 
The famous "Newsweek meeting." Let me explain. In January 1967, RFK was on a European tour of the UK, France, Germany and Italy. In Britain he met Wilson at No 10, he also met de Gaulle and senior French Quai d'Orsay officials. The last of those meetings involved a meeting with the QdO's Far East expert, Etienne Manach. They discussed the possibilities for a negotiated 'Nam settlement. No one is really certain what happened there- quite possibly there was a translation (RFK being unilingual) error. in any case, it was leaked to Newsweek by an unknown bureaucratic source that something concrete had been proposed, which was promptly published. So LBJ finds out, he's furious- in his now fully-established anti-RFK paranoia, he thinks RFK did it, which he did not. When he returns, a prompt White House summons...

The conversation went like this, despite non-denial denials to the contrary on both sides.

LBJ: "You were the source for that article."
RFK: "No, Mr. President, I was not. While on my tour, I found that in..."
... (civil discussion)
RFK: "They all agreed that the best chance of peace was a bombing halt as a prelude to negotiations."
LBJ: "There isn't a chance in hell I would do that. I will destroy you and each and every one of your dove friends- you have blood on your hands."
RFK: (pounds fist on desk, gets up abruptly): "I don't have to take that shit from you!"
LBJ cuts him off at the door: "Tell them that you received no peace feeler- Vietnam was not discussed."
RFK: (sullenly nods, leaves)
LBJ to Katzenbach (the witness): "Spin this as best you can."
 
Nixon runs for President in '64?
:confused::eek::D

No- have Rockefeller win the California primary- a 2 point swing gives him a 51-49 victory over Goldwater. That gives Rocky the nomination and puts the Northeastern, youth and Catholic votes in play. Only one Democrat can solidify that voting bloc, which is Bobby. LBJ would have to ask as a serious offer, not a pro forma request.
 
The tribute to JFK at the 1964 Democratic convention was scheduled after the vice presidential vote to avoid a sentimental drive to put Bobby on the ticket.
We could also use this to our advantage. Have the tribute at the beginning of the convention, and the convention sticks the duo together?
 
I think the best way would be an earlier POD and to have JFK and LBJ combine to work on a bill that they both cared about.

I don't know enough about their legislative careers to come up with one that would be appropriate, but with some checking, I'm sure you'd be able to find one.
 
No- have Rockefeller win the California primary- a 2 point swing gives him a 51-49 victory over Goldwater. That gives Rocky the nomination and puts the Northeastern, youth and Catholic votes in play. Only one Democrat can solidify that voting bloc, which is Bobby. LBJ would have to ask as a serious offer, not a pro forma request.

Heeheehee, That makes sense.

Man, that LBJ-JFK conversation was painful with a capital PAIN

LBJ can end in lots of different ways - plenty of different assassination attempts, random accident (even a simple shower slip could do it), health problems, etc.
 
Nixon wasn't in the habit of kamikaze missions. The reason he ran for Governor in '62 was precisely to avoid being dragooned into being polished off by JFK for a second time, this time more decisively than the first. No one could beat the Democratic nominee in 1964, be it JFK, RFK, HHH, or LBJ, who are the 4 possible nominees depending on circumstance.
 
There were other conversations more painful than that. They were not taped, thus not transcribed. Why? RFK did not like electronic surveillance when the person conducting it did not ask his permission (quite reasonable), which he usually granted if asked. Since he knew that LBJ was taping (a manual system, unlike Nixon's) with the record button visibly depressed, he wore a demagnetization device inside his jacket, which rendered the tapes a bunch of static. When the technician told the President... let's just say it wasn't appropriate for family viewing. :p
 
Nixon wasn't in the habit of kamikaze missions. The reason he ran for Governor in '62 was precisely to avoid being dragooned into being polished off by JFK for a second time, this time more decisively than the first. No one could beat the Democratic nominee in 1964, be it JFK, RFK, HHH, or LBJ, who are the 4 possible nominees depending on circumstance.

You just admitted that HHH could win an election! Any suggestions on LBJs passing? I think accident is the best.
 
LBJ: heart attack is the easiest bet. One of the major reasons he withdrew in '68 and was initially unsure about '64 was health.
 
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