Challenge : Contest air superiority from F-15C

Good fun question and thank you. Extreme limitations and leveling of the engagement envelope. Guns only. Chuck Yeager in his prime in a lightly loaded F16. vs the F15.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Ah! Found this online; a document from the lobbying group AIPAC discussing Sidewinder inventory. According to this, the AIM-9Ls could not be used on the F-5Es.

I'm having a hard time finding when the AIM-9P-4 (the first all-aspect model) came into service, though.
I would assume sometime before 1977 when the -9L entered service as, if I read the information correctly, the Lima was an improvement overal over the all aspect -9P

Does anyone have any idea how much an f15 cost ? Relative to a mig21/23 in early 80s ?
An F-15 cost just under 30 million in 1998, so probably a few million less than that
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
I would assume sometime before 1977 when the -9L entered service as, if I read the information correctly, the Lima was an improvement overal over the all aspect -9P

I seem to recall it was the other way around -- the all-aspect -9P was a modification of the rear-only -9Ps using some of what was learned from the -9L, and adapted for export as a slightly dumbed down and cheaper version of -9L/M. I could be wrong about that, though.
 

SsgtC

Banned
I seem to recall it was the other way around -- the all-aspect -9P was a modification of the rear-only -9Ps using some of what was learned from the -9L, and adapted for export as a slightly dumbed down and cheaper version of -9L/M. I could be wrong about that, though.
Yeah, the couple articles I read weren't real clear on that. They could have been introduced concurrently, with the -9P getting the upgraded seeker head, which would account for the confusion. I could also just be screwing it up in my head. Lol.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
In the mid 80s Can the radar of F15 continue to guide the AIM7 even if it has to take evasive actions to avoid an enemy missile ? Or does it break the radar lock
 

SsgtC

Banned
In the mid 80s Can the radar of F15 continue to guide the AIM7 even if it has to take evasive actions to avoid an enemy missile ? Or does it break the radar lock
I think the radar had to remain pointed in the general direction of what you were shooting at
 
I think the radar had to remain pointed in the general direction of what you were shooting at

Agreed, I think the F-15C had a mechanically-steered radar antenna. Which means that you had to keep the nose roughly pointed at the target. Maneuvers within the radar's limit of traverse were okay - which might be 40 degrees either side of the nose, I don't know - but serious evasive action would mean the AIM-7s lost lock.
 
Target the pilots. Country A is likely to have a small pool of trained pilots. I would launch a covert operation against the pilots on the night before the start of the war, then destroy the planes on the tarmac with an air strike
 
The balance of Su17 to MiG23BN to Su24 is relevant. Even the basic (non M) Su-24 is in another league compared to the other two.
 
Target the pilots. Country A is likely to have a small pool of trained pilots. I would launch a covert operation against the pilots on the night before the start of the war, then destroy the planes on the tarmac with an air strike

Commando raid. Yep.

Can't beat their pilots in the air?

Kill them when they are relaxing in the tub.

As for the aircraft and supporting facilities attack them with small units armed with Mortars / rockets (or a full bodied 'SAS' style airfield assault but that might be harder to arrange and keep secret etc)

Have some of the units delay their attacks so as the first units are destroyed / retreated etc the attacks continue

The disruption would put a crimp on air ops even without actually causing damage to aircraft.
 
^thanks
And from country B side with Soviet equipment what is your advice to them against the F15s
If you've got that range of Soviet kit, you've probably got SCUDs and FROGs as JSB said. Use them to bombard any enemy airfields in range in concert with a dawn attack. Make all efforts to take out the AWACs, 3 isn't a big enough number to have one in the air constantly, so destroying even one will put a big hole in the enemies capabilities.

With so many aircraft, you can Zerg-swarm them. Or infiltrate commandoes to use SA-7 around the enemy airbases.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
If you've got that range of Soviet kit, you've probably got SCUDs and FROGs as JSB said. Use them to bombard any enemy airfields in range in concert with a dawn attack. Make all efforts to take out the AWACs, 3 isn't a big enough number to have one in the air constantly, so destroying even one will put a big hole in the enemies capabilities.

With so many aircraft, you can Zerg-swarm them. Or infiltrate commandoes to use SA-7 around the enemy airbases.
I'm assuming S200 can be used as an antiAWACS weapon too with their 300 km range
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Agreed, I think the F-15C had a mechanically-steered radar antenna. Which means that you had to keep the nose roughly pointed at the target. Maneuvers within the radar's limit of traverse were okay - which might be 40 degrees either side of the nose, I don't know - but serious evasive action would mean the AIM-7s lost lock.
So here cant the numerical superiority be used to frustrate the AIM7 long range attacks of F15 ?
Since F15 has to take some evasive measures even if the missile launched against it an R13 or R23.So isnt it best to send the obsolete fighters first to keep them busy and use the Foxbats ( with longer range AAM R40D ) for slashing attacks when F15 already in the middle of a fight?
And when F15 are tracking its missiles to target that is when they are most vulnerable just like all aircraft of its generation with its radar on and not conducting any evasive maneuvers

F15 whether in Israeli or US hands never has faced such huge numerical odds against it so its unknown how it will it respond esp given it has one pilot will likely be overworked.Surely it will shoot down far larger number of enemy jets but a 3 : 1 ratio and 4:1 ratio difference can mean victory or defeat
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Commando raid. Yep.

Can't beat their pilots in the air?

Kill them when they are relaxing in the tub.

As for the aircraft and supporting facilities attack them with small units armed with Mortars / rockets (or a full bodied 'SAS' style airfield assault but that might be harder to arrange and keep secret etc)

Have some of the units delay their attacks so as the first units are destroyed / retreated etc the attacks continue

The disruption would put a crimp on air ops even without actually causing damage to aircraft.
I'm thinking it's more useful to use the strikers in a suicidal mission
Crashing their sukhoi and migs in f15 shelters , they can trade one for one aircraft
 
Target the pilots. Country A is likely to have a small pool of trained pilots. I would launch a covert operation against the pilots on the night before the start of the war, then destroy the planes on the tarmac with an air strike

That is sneaky. I like it!

Commando raid. Yep.

Can't beat their pilots in the air?

Kill them when they are relaxing in the tub.

As for the aircraft and supporting facilities attack them with small units armed with Mortars / rockets (or a full bodied 'SAS' style airfield assault but that might be harder to arrange and keep secret etc)

Have some of the units delay their attacks so as the first units are destroyed / retreated etc the attacks continue

The disruption would put a crimp on air ops even without actually causing damage to aircraft.

If you have landed your commandos on the airbase you may as well smash up as much as you can.
 
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