Challenge; Byzantium and Venice unite.

How could Byzantium and Venice unite politically before 1204? Perhaps dynastic marriages with the great families or something.

If Byzantium and Venice did unite before 1204 what would happen?
 
Oil and water don't mix.

The only way they could 'unite' is by one conquering the other. Unless you really want to go into ASBish territory. (A byzie nabob somehow becomes Doge, then Emperor)
 
The Byz will have to conquer Venice. Perhaps Manuel Komnenos could have a crack at it, he started rebuilding the Byz navy and was big on engaging the west.
 
Quite easy in fact, you only need Byzantium to keep a closer eye on Venice and never let it become independent, nor autonomous, in the first place.
 

Giladis

Banned
How about Byzantium never lets Vencie of the leash and makes of it just another Adriatic coastal town, like Zadar or Kotor.

edit:Xavier got it faster :)
 
The Byz will have to conquer Venice. Perhaps Manuel Komnenos could have a crack at it, he started rebuilding the Byz navy and was big on engaging the west.

I think the other way around is much more probable.
Maybe Dandolo could organize the IV crusade 15 years earlier (when he was still relatively young)

Venetiae Translatio Imperii Rei Publicae Orientali Anno Domini MCLXXIX
 
Given that Venice remained very much a vassal of the Romaoi until at least the early eleventh century, I'd be inclined to stick with Xavier and Gilaldis, and say that the best course of action is simply not to let Venice off the leash, and continue to have the Doge (Doux, in Greek), as merely another Adriatic vassal of the Emperor.

The best way to properly consolidate this is IMHO to have the revolt of George Maniakes succeed- Maniakes was very interested in the West, and he would likely do a lot to bulk up the East Roman presence in Italy and the Adriatic, thereby reabsorbing Venice before she could even gain proper freedom. Alternatively, you could have Isaac Komnenos live longer, but I'm sure that's been done somewhere... ;)
 
Would Venice have become the power it did if it hadn't become independant? My idea is for the rising Venice to invigourate the Empire, which needs a vibrant Venice with powerful families using trade as their income to link to the traditional byz strength of land and tax.
 
didnt Venice get rich trading with Byzantium? by this I mean being the middleman between the Byzantines and W. Europe? So how does this help help reinvigorate the Byzantines?
 
IIUC the notables of Venice got rich from trade and shipping, they were very big in the Levant. The Byzantines used land and the produce thereof as their source of wealth and taxation, but as this got overrun their resource base shrank. With trade wealth available, and a powerful navy the great landed families of the Empire would always be subordinate to the state. At the very least if Venice and Byzantium were united the sack of 1204 wouldn't have happened.
 
ok sounds good my knowledge of this period is minimal (being American educated we tend to glance over the Middle Ages).

What about this I am reading Simon Wells' book Sailing From Byzantium. In it he discusses a lot of the cultural exchanges that happen between East and West. So what if during the beginning of the Florentine Renaissance instead of the leading Byzantine intellectuals converting to Catholicism what if it was the other way around. The Florentine (or take your pick of ITalian city State) intellectuals were to convert to Orthodoxy and to learn Greek? is it possible for these cultural exchanges lead to renewed influence on Italy?
 
Would Venice have become the power it did if it hadn't become independant? My idea is for the rising Venice to invigourate the Empire, which needs a vibrant Venice with powerful families using trade as their income to link to the traditional byz strength of land and tax.

Venice in OTL drained the Empire's lifeblood, and acted first as a passive parasite through the Komnenid period, and then as an active vampire in the slow, sad years of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. Make no mistake about it, Venice will protect her own interests, and not those of any "schismastic Greeks"- and this means an OTL result of ultimately partitioning a divided Roman Empire for her own ends.
 
Triv! As mailinutile2 suggested, just have the 4th Crusade before 1204 and have them hang on to it. ;):D:D

Not letting Venice go would hardly do the job, because, well, Byzantium managed to lose Northern Italy, not once, but twice. Byzantium was quite the world champeen at losing turf ;-). Trust me, it doesn't matter how many times you reannex that part of Italy - they'll just lose again the next time an idiot has the throne, as they lost the rest of the Empire.

Basileus Giorgios
Venice in OTL drained the Empire's lifeblood, and acted first as a passive parasite through the Komnenid period, and then as an active vampire in the slow, sad years of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. Make no mistake about it, Venice will protect her own interests, and not those of any "schismastic Greeks"- and this means an OTL result of ultimately partitioning a divided Roman Empire for her own ends.
...er, was there really enough Empire left for it to be called "partitioning?" :eek::eek: Sorry - I couldn't resist. ;)

Well, what do you expect? The Roman Empire was an unchecked monarchy, and Venice an oligarchic republic.
 
I don't think conquest is a good way for them to unite, partnership that combines their respective strengths would be ideal.
 
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