Challenge: Butterfly away islam

[Hashasheen]

Why ?

this is the middle east! you can count more prophets, religous reformers, messiahs, and religous spin offs than people in Congress and House! its like a trend that comes and goes

 

[Ridwan Asher]

this is the middle east! you can count more prophets, religous reformers, messiahs, and religous spin offs than people in Congress and House! its like a trend that comes and goes

Sure, but I can't see why it would be inevitable to be only happening in Arabia.

 

[Ran Exilis]

Sure, but I can't see why it would be inevitable to be only happening in Arabia.

Eh? Xenos and TU were talking about the Middle East in general, not just Arabia.

And there were several reasons why a new religion/religious movement would be more likely to emerge and become popular in Mesopotamia and Arabia.

One of the main reasons for this, is that places like Egypt and the Greek and Persian heartlands already were dominated by a single, well-established religion, while there was no truly dominant religion in Mesopotamia or Arabia. (in spite of the strong Sassanid influence in Mesopotamia, the influence of Zoroastrianism there has never been very significant - even recall reading that the influence of Zoroastrianism in Mesopotamia was so small, that there were no fire temples in Dastgerd, the Mesopotamian summer residence of the Sassanid Emperors)

And Arabia and especially Mesopotamia were places were many different ideas, religions, and philosophies met, and were many different sects and religious movements emerged (like Manicheism, to name but one good example).

..
However, I do agree with your general point that something like the unification of the Arabs under the banner of a new faith does not need to happen during the 7th century.

 

[Hashasheen]

i stand by my point of creating a Jewish Arab Empire, liberating Judah and Israel, and maybe conquers Egypt.

 

[Snake Featherston]

i stand by my point of creating a Jewish Arab Empire, liberating Judah and Israel, and maybe conquers Egypt.

Not a snowball's chance in the Malebolge that the Byzantines will allow that. I mean, Islam was different enough, but the Byzantines will think one thing of that empire: Constantinople Smash Puny Jews!

 

[Valdemar II]

Not a snowball's chance in the Malebolge that the Byzantines will allow that. I mean, Islam was different enough, but the Byzantines will think one thing of that empire: Constantinople Smash Puny Jews!

Plus while the local disliked the Byzantines more than the Muslims, they truely hated the Jews, so any Jewish invasion is going to fail thanks to local resistance. At most I could see them conquer Palestina and Mesopotania.

 

[rcduggan]

Not a snowball's chance in the Malebolge that the Byzantines will allow that. I mean, Islam was different enough, but the Byzantines will think one thing of that empire: Constantinople Smash Puny Jews!

The Byzantines did not "allow" the Arabs to conquer all that land they did in OTL. Would the Byzantine Emperor have preferred to keep that territory rather than let it fall to hostile armies which would destroy the Roman Empire? It's a safe bet to say no. So why would the Byzantine allowance be any more effective against a Jewish Arab Empire?

 

[Snake Featherston]

The Byzantines did not "allow" the Arabs to conquer all that land they did in OTL. Would the Byzantine Emperor have preferred to keep that territory rather than let it fall to hostile armies which would destroy the Roman Empire? It's a safe bet to say no. So why would the Byzantine allowance be any more effective against a Jewish Arab Empire?

Simple...Islam was an unknown quantity with enough similarities to Christianity to attract popular support. None of that, especially the popular support bit, applies to a Jewish Caliphate.

 

[rcduggan]

Simple...Islam was an unknown quantity with enough similarities to Christianity to attract popular support. None of that, especially the popular support bit, applies to a Jewish Caliphate.

There were Jewish uprisings even in the 6th century IIRC, so I disagree about the popular support the Jews would get in the Levant.

 

[Snake Featherston]

There were Jewish uprisings even in the 6th century IIRC, so I disagree about the popular support the Jews would get in the Levant.

Perhaps, but those Jews were subjects of the Byzantine Empire...not foreigners trying to conquer it. If foreign Jews start attempting that sort of thing....