Challenge: Axis Victory Second Battle of El Alamein

Time consumes all

As I indicated earlier, Monty must not be there. If he is, then this whole thread falls to nationalist fervor. Posters are not exactly cool-headed when his name pops up. Any, and I mean ANY other general (including Wellington:eek:) can come in for criticism, however gentle, but not Monty. He is still a sacred icon. Even Robert E. Lee now has historians from the southern US ready to criticize "The Marble Man". I guess we'll just have to wait another 30 years or so, if the span of time for Monty is the same as it was for Lee in terms of untouchability amoungst his countrymen.:)
 
As I indicated earlier, Monty must not be there. If he is, then this whole thread falls to nationalist fervor. Posters are not exactly cool-headed when his name pops up. Any, and I mean ANY other general (including Wellington:eek:) can come in for criticism, however gentle, but not Monty. He is still a sacred icon. Even Robert E. Lee now has historians from the southern US ready to criticize "The Marble Man". I guess we'll just have to wait another 30 years or so, if the span of time for Monty is the same as it was for Lee in terms of untouchability amoungst his countrymen.:)

There is actually a respectable amount of Monty bashing on this board... Market Garden is pretty much universally regarded here as a complete mess
 
The only way for Rommel to win is to go through the Alamein position, which at odds of 2:1 AGAINST, defences in depth, experienced troops, and no flank to turn, just isnt going to happen...

The British dont need to win a counterattack, In fact they can just sit there - all they have to do is hold the Africa Corps in place while Torch happens in their rear.
The victory at Alamein was a huge moral boost, and helped win NA, but by that point in time it wasnt a desisive victory.
 
There is actually a respectable amount of Monty bashing on this board... Market Garden is pretty much universally regarded here as a complete mess

I agree with your second statement completely. Unfortunately, nearly ALL of the complaints seem to want to blame:

1) The 101st and 82nd US Airborne, and and their officers.
2) The 1st British Airbourne and their officers
3) XXX Corps and their officers
4) British 2nd Army and their officers
5) The Allied Airforces and their commanders
6) Winston Churchill
7) Franklin Roosevelt
8) Fala
9) Eleanor Roosevelt
10) Clementine Churchill
11) General Devers and the whole 6th Army Group
12) General Bradley and The whole 12th Army Group
13) General George Marshall
14) General Patton
15) Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke
16) Field Marshal Alexander
17) Every last soldier, seaman, and airman in the Mediterranean Theater
18) 21st Army Group and their officers, SAVE ONE
19) ABOVE ALL, Dwight David Eisenhower, and his staff

It is a given that any criticism of Monty, even just of his complete inability to work with his allies on the same level of command (only the Soviets and 1940 3rd Republic French Army were worse among the Major Allies), will insure a torrent of anger from his (very) loyal fans.:mad: These are the people who will argue forever that it was only the interference of the above "Terrible Nineteen" that caused the failure of Monty's lovechild.
 
Not that it matters anyway. The Allies will simply wait and build up again.

Actually it makes a huge difference. If the British don't attack or are beaten back when Torch happensthe Axis fprces are that much further away from Tunis and Bizerte the former of which nearly fell in Dec. 42 in OTL. Basically an Axis victory at Second El Alamein leads to an earlier Allied victory in North Africa, and earlier landings in Sicily and Italy.
 

Markus

Banned
Actually it makes a huge difference. If the British don't attack or are beaten back when Torch happensthe Axis fprces are that much further away from Tunis and Bizerte the former of which nearly fell in Dec. 42 in OTL. Basically an Axis victory at Second El Alamein leads to an earlier Allied victory in North Africa, and earlier landings in Sicily and Italy.

You are mixing things up. The Axis forces that defended Tunesia were flown in from Italy to "watch Rommel´s back", who was still deep inside Libya at that time. The build-up will happen anyway IMO.
 
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