Challenge: A German CSA...

As far as i have understood this, i do not think that it would happen.

And as far as i know, Britain and France were known to appease the Confederacy with recognition, and i have read somewhere that the German states and Russia were more-so on the side of the Union in OTL

It always seemed to me that they weren't all that interested at all in the ACW compared to Britain, France, and Spain and it strikes me odd that a Union army filled with so many exiled revolutionaries would receive such German support...

WI there's something akin to Trent Affair situation but with Prussia instead of England (rather than the ASB idea of earlier German Unification and this idea everyone seems to love that a Unified Germany would be immune to war for 18 years...)

Or a Trent Affair situation against Germany in a TL where the 1848 Revolutions do succeed and Germany has gone to war since.

Better?

EDIT: Oh great... now that he's finally got a good idea we're silent... :p
 
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WI there's something akin to Trent Affair situation but with Prussia instead of England

again, why is Prussia now supporting the CSA?

(rather than the ASB idea of earlier German Unification and this idea everyone seems to love that a Unified Germany would be immune to war for 18 years...)

no, everyone pointed out the Weaker Germany united in 1848 would Not have proven themselves to be a powerful Military force.
with out the results from the failed 1848 conference, they may not be a very powerful force.
and I pointed out if they do get into a war with Austria, France or Denmark, it can go the other way, a German defeat.

Or a Trent Affair situation against Germany in a TL where the 1848 Revolutions do succeed and Germany has gone to war since.

still does not answer the question of Why Germany is supporting the CSA.
I do not see why the fledgling nation, with a weak Military and navy, would support another fledging nation that is currently fighting for it's life.

Explain to me why they would support the CSA. what us their man reason and Motivation?
don't say "strong ally in North America", it would make more sense to ally with the USA instead if that's the case.
 
The Union does something to cross Germany to the degree that they feel like they need to support the C.S.A.

It's as simple as that.

And economic reasons could contribute to the concept of a lasting relationship. If Germany is desperately trying to build its military and industrialize it will need agricultural trading partners. There was clearly enough Confederate support in Germany (itself very recently a Confederation) IOTL that some Prussians traveled to fight for the Gray.
 
The Union does something to cross Germany to the degree that they feel like they need to support the C.S.A.

It's as simple as that.

that still leaves the same question.

what happened that would make the Prussians support the CSA?

Don't say "Prussian version of the Trent incident"
why are the Prussians visiting the Confederates to start with?
How do the Confederates appeal to the Prussians?

And economic reasons could contribute to the concept of a lasting relationship. If Germany is desperately trying to build its military and industrialize it will need agricultural trading partners. There was clearly enough Confederate support in Germany (itself very recently a Confederation) IOTL that some Prussians traveled to fight for the Gray.

Some Prussians are not all of Prussia.

the CSA is fighting for it's life right now, it's hardly in any position to promise things to another weaker power.

In the senario you've just posted, Germany is Build up it's Millitary and Industrialize, hardly a nation in a position to support the CSA.
 
You mean like how the twentieth century was defined by a brotherly-love-fest between its two great Unions, the USA and the USSR?

Ha! Good point...

Clearly, it's more of a stretch than any of my research has suggested and I appreciate everyone's honesty. But is it an appealing stretch? Is it worth exploring further?

If we can strengthen Germany and create a situation of hate and distrust between the Union and Germany by the end of the war there could be some interesting German history...
 
The Union does something to cross Germany to the degree that they feel like they need to support the C.S.A.

It's as simple as that.

That is silly. What would the US do against Germany... in the 1860s?

And economic reasons could contribute to the concept of a lasting relationship. If Germany is desperately trying to build its military and industrialize it will need agricultural trading partners. There was clearly enough Confederate support in Germany (itself very recently a Confederation) IOTL that some Prussians traveled to fight for the Gray.

Ha! That is a translation problem. The German name was "Deutscher Bund", similarly you had the "Rheinbund" (Confederation of the Rhine), "Norddeutscher Bund" (North German Confederation) and, mind you "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (Federal Republic of Germany). The literal, English cognate for "Bund" is 'bond', however, usually, it is translated as either confederation or federation in English, depending on what actually describes it better. Interestingly, the "Schweizer Eidgenossenschaft" (literally "oath companionship") is also rendered as "Swiss Confederation" in English. Does that mean the Swiss are going to ally with the CSA?! I doubt it.
 
The literal, English cognate for "Bund" is 'bond', however, usually, it is translated as either confederation or federation in English, depending on what actually describes it better. Interestingly, the "Schweizer Eidgenossenschaft" (literally "oath companionship") is also rendered as "Swiss Confederation" in English. Does that mean the Swiss are going to ally with the CSA?! I doubt it.
Hm, I thought 'Bund' could also be translated as League (going from that I've often seen 'Bund' translated into 'Förbund', which in turn translates into 'League')?
 
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That is silly. What would the US do against Germany... in the 1860s?

You tell me. Accidental murder of a nobleman? Sinking of a ship mistakenly. These things happen, it's not so out there.


Ha! That is a translation problem. The German name was "Deutscher Bund", similarly you had the "Rheinbund" (Confederation of the Rhine), "Norddeutscher Bund" (North German Confederation) and, mind you "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (Federal Republic of Germany). The literal, English cognate for "Bund" is 'bond', however, usually, it is translated as either confederation or federation in English, depending on what actually describes it better. Interestingly, the "Schweizer Eidgenossenschaft" (literally "oath companionship") is also rendered as "Swiss Confederation" in English. Does that mean the Swiss are going to ally with the CSA?! I doubt it.

That's not really what I meant... I meant that Confederates would find some comfort in this translation. Not that every nation that had ever been called a Confederation was pro C.S.A.

It bothers me that those were the only parts of that you read and commented on. I wanted to discuss or even argue. Not be attacked and patronized. So let's talk...

How can we make it work? Is it worth trying to force into working? Does anyone else like the idea of Confederate Generals augmenting the Kaiser's army? Confederate politicians rising in Germany?

A successful Communist Revolution in 1918 (or even earlier) followed by the embarrassing and debilitating collapse of the economy with her defeat in WW1.

Grand Wizard Hitler taking control sooner and more violently and the descendants of Southern soldiers (Nathan Bedford Forrest III in the Luftwaffe?) fighting for Hitler?

C'mon...

EDIT: Howabout something less drastic... Germany offers ex-Confederates land deals as it needs labor for industrialization and the South is inundated with Carpetbaggers.

Even 20,000 ex-Confederates in OTL's Germany could cause a major shift, right?

There's also this which (though I haven't read it) doesn't seem too ASB: http://uchronia.com/bib.cgi/label.html?id=amerandenf

Confederados going to Germany instead of Brazil and Confederate mercenaries hired (by Prussia?) to help establish order and strengthen the military. This could work, yeah?
 
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Ha! Good point...

Clearly, it's more of a stretch than any of my research has suggested and I appreciate everyone's honesty. But is it an appealing stretch? Is it worth exploring further?

If we can strengthen Germany and create a situation of hate and distrust between the Union and Germany by the end of the war there could be some interesting German history...

how?
German Immigrants to the US before 1848 were primarily Farmers.
they've been one of the Major immigrants to the USA, even after German Unification in OTL.

It bothers me that those were the only parts of that you read and commented on. I wanted to discuss or even argue. Not be attacked and patronized. So let's talk...

we have pointed out the issues here, you keep ignoring my points; why is Prussia suddenly supporting the CSA?

How can we make it work? Is it worth trying to force into working? Does anyone else like the idea of Confederate Generals augmenting the Kaiser's army? Confederate politicians rising in Germany?

First you have to solve the Problems of:
-earlier united and stronger Germany.
-a powerful German Navy
-an actual reason for Germany to support the CSA.

A successful Communist Revolution in 1918 followed by the embarrassing and debilitating collapse of the economy with her defeat in WW1.

Grand Wizard Hitler taking control sooner and more violently and the descendants of Southern soldiers (Nathan Bedford Forrest III in the Luftwaffe?

C'mon...

Hitler and Forrest III would be butterflied away from this.
the KKK and Nazis would be butterflied away from this.
have you not figured that out?
 
Hm, I thought 'Bund' could also be translated as League (going from that I've often seen 'Bund' translated into 'Förbund', which in turn translates into 'League')?

"League" in German is actually "Liga". However, you are right in so far as for instance, the "Schwäbische(r) Bund" is rendered as "Swabian League" in English. :)
 
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