Challenge: A Different Congress of Berlin

Ok so dividing up Africa is a given but how do we get the European powers assembled to recognize that the Post-Napoleonic European order no longer functions. Germany and Italy are now great powers in their own right and looking to get in on the colonial game. Could we get Britain and France to give up parts of Africa or better yet force Portugal and King Leo out of the game in exchange for concessions in Europe(France getting Alsace-Lorraine back)?
 
I think German prestige on the continent is more important to the Kaiser than prestige overseas. I doubt a few colonies would be enough for him to return A-L to France.

France and Britain are colonial powerhouses even before German and Italian unification, why should they give up their colonies to such young countries? No, I think the only way Germany and Italy can gain anymore is through a first-in-first-served method. If they were richer, more prepared and faster then they might be able to grab a few slices more (I've always liked the idea of an Italian colony on the Gold Coast, mind you).

The problem with King Leo was that Germany, France and Britain all wanted the Congo (some more than others, probably), but neither France nor Britain wanted to see it in German hands. Leo was a good compromise (which later turned to shit).
 
The problem with King Leo was that Germany, France and Britain all wanted the Congo (some more than others, probably), but neither France nor Britain wanted to see it in German hands. Leo was a good compromise (which later turned to shit).
Portgual (remember Cabinda?) and, of course, Belgium's King Leo (via several treaties gained in expeditions) also had claims and plans for the place. If not King Leo's Congo Free State, I could see at least part of the Congo being recognized as Portugal's.
 
I think German prestige on the continent is more important to the Kaiser than prestige overseas. I doubt a few colonies would be enough for him to return A-L to France.

France and Britain are colonial powerhouses even before German and Italian unification, why should they give up their colonies to such young countries? No, I think the only way Germany and Italy can gain anymore is through a first-in-first-served method. If they were richer, more prepared and faster then they might be able to grab a few slices more (I've always liked the idea of an Italian colony on the Gold Coast, mind you).

The problem with King Leo was that Germany, France and Britain all wanted the Congo (some more than others, probably), but neither France nor Britain wanted to see it in German hands. Leo was a good compromise (which later turned to shit).

Furthermore it appears that at the time German Imperialists*, actually were more interested in the Philippines, Formosa and (East) Timor (and at a later date the protectorate of Morocco); although any change for more African Colonies, like OTL Congo Free State, probably wouldn't be refused.
IIRC Italy wanted Tunisia, but any change to increase 'their place under the sun' would be welcomed (for instance OTL Congo Free State).

If France wants to convice Germany to sell them Alsace Lorraine in return for colonies, then France would have to give a lot of colonies, for instance French Indochina,( perhaps Madagascar, perhaps French Polynesia,) the protectorate Morocco, parts of French West Africa and parts of French Equatorial Africa. Any price reasonable for Germany most likely would have seemed ridiculous for France and would also have caused objections from other colonial powers like the United Kingdom. And much more important it should not be forgotten, that at the time it was the age of nationalism, Alsace Lorraine was considered a part of the German nation by Germans, so selling them could cause internal opposition of nationalists.

Otherwise a likely outcome of the conference would be minor border alterations, slightly different from the OTL.

*= Bismarck wasn't (yet) very enthusiastic about colonies, but obviously there already was a more pro colonial movement
 
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I think German prestige on the continent is more important to the Kaiser than prestige overseas. I doubt a few colonies would be enough for him to return A-L to France.

Very true. There was no real interest in overseas colonies at the time and Bismarck only warmed to the idea later.

France and Britain are colonial powerhouses even before German and Italian unification, why should they give up their colonies to such young countries? No, I think the only way Germany and Italy can gain anymore is through a first-in-first-served method. If they were richer, more prepared and faster then they might be able to grab a few slices more (I've always liked the idea of an Italian colony on the Gold Coast, mind you).

Agreed.

The problem with King Leo was that Germany, France and Britain all wanted the Congo (some more than others, probably), but neither France nor Britain wanted to see it in German hands. Leo was a good compromise (which later turned to shit).

I think the two points for Britain with the Congo were:
a) To have it still open to British trade, hence the desire for a 3rd power with a formal commitment to free trade.
b) To keep the region out of the hands of France rather than Germany as France was the big colonial rival at the time.

Steve
 
Do you just want a POD during the negotiations of the treaty, or would a POD before it work? Because in 1871 the Netherlands sold their part of the goldcoast to Britain. That wasn't very populair at least among some people. So if the Netherlands keep their forts after 1871 a (partialy) Dutch Ghana is possible.
 
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