Challenge: >10% of American Population Monastic
- Thread starter ninebucks
- Start date
Define monastic order. Are we talking just Christians who lock themselves up far from anybody else? How about Friars? How about their equivalents in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism?
1. Lots of disruption. If North America is wiped out in nuclear fire, or if Yellowstone erupts, but the rest of the world doesn't collapse all the way back to the Stone Age or worse, and there's a religious revival and a monastic revival as a result, then maybe you get a fair number of monasteries in the Americas because of the immense solitude and distance from everything, and because contemplating the destruction is felt to be a spiritually valuable. Since we're positing almost no population in North America, the monks could easily be 10% or more of the total.
2. Alternatively, you could posit an alternative development of Catholicism in the 19th and 20th Century that broadens the Catholic definition of monasticism to include lay orders like the Opus Dei, the Legionaires of Christ, the People of Praise, and so on, and puts a lot more emphasis on them so lots more Catholics belong to them. I don't think that gets you to 10% though.
3. Alternative 2 works better if monasticism is less exclusive to Catholicism, but that's a POD that probably goes back further than the ARW. Hmm. Suppose Quebec gets included in the Colonies and becomes part of the US. Suppose also as a result that eventually monasticism ends up having some special legal privileges, either in law or custom or legal precedent or some combination of all of the above. Then you might get a situation where groups like the Amish are considered to be monastic (just as laws that were originally designed to protect the privacy of the confessional ended up applying to clergy of most denominations). Over time, this process of development might get you to 10%.
2. Alternatively, you could posit an alternative development of Catholicism in the 19th and 20th Century that broadens the Catholic definition of monasticism to include lay orders like the Opus Dei, the Legionaires of Christ, the People of Praise, and so on, and puts a lot more emphasis on them so lots more Catholics belong to them. I don't think that gets you to 10% though.
3. Alternative 2 works better if monasticism is less exclusive to Catholicism, but that's a POD that probably goes back further than the ARW. Hmm. Suppose Quebec gets included in the Colonies and becomes part of the US. Suppose also as a result that eventually monasticism ends up having some special legal privileges, either in law or custom or legal precedent or some combination of all of the above. Then you might get a situation where groups like the Amish are considered to be monastic (just as laws that were originally designed to protect the privacy of the confessional ended up applying to clergy of most denominations). Over time, this process of development might get you to 10%.
ninebucks
Banned
It doesn't have to be Christianity, but there does have to be a degree of social exclusion.
I think your best bet for a realistic scenario is to abort the USA. British North America can then continue to exist as a peaceful little corner of the continent, but much of OTL's US territory is Spanish. Which even after the various revolutions (later and probably different in character) would support a strongly Catholic traditiopn with monastic lifestyles part of the mainstream.
Now, fast forward to modernity in a largely Catholic Spanish/Portuguese America without Social Security. The Church offers an option of safe retirement. Simply, you enter a monastery to end your life in contemplation and prayer once the world palls. As an added bonus (on top of a roof, food every day and decent health care for free) you can atone for your sins. Of course, there are also people who choose to take their vows earlier in life, but the bulk of monks and nuns are retirees. Depending on your wealth, education and inclination, you can get into various orders and monasteries with widely differing reputations, from the inclusive, loving but basic are of the Franciscans (they will take anyone) to the genteel, refined intellectual atmosphere of the Jesuits (they are picky), the harsh discipline of the Augustines (serious about atoning) and the relaxed worldliness of the fashionable Neo-Cluniac convents around San Francisco.
Now, fast forward to modernity in a largely Catholic Spanish/Portuguese America without Social Security. The Church offers an option of safe retirement. Simply, you enter a monastery to end your life in contemplation and prayer once the world palls. As an added bonus (on top of a roof, food every day and decent health care for free) you can atone for your sins. Of course, there are also people who choose to take their vows earlier in life, but the bulk of monks and nuns are retirees. Depending on your wealth, education and inclination, you can get into various orders and monasteries with widely differing reputations, from the inclusive, loving but basic are of the Franciscans (they will take anyone) to the genteel, refined intellectual atmosphere of the Jesuits (they are picky), the harsh discipline of the Augustines (serious about atoning) and the relaxed worldliness of the fashionable Neo-Cluniac convents around San Francisco.
More Jewish, Amish, Shaker, Mennonite communities. A widespread and successful utopian separatist movement in the 1840's & 50's.
If by "American" you mean the United States and by "monastic" you mean celibate and living in separate communities, it would take several major PODs.
1. Protestant groups such as the Shakers that practice celibacy and have a quasi-monastic lifestyle become much more popular and widespread in the 19th century.
2. Larger Catholic immigration, and monasticism becomes much more popular among Catholics - perhaps like Carlton suggests it becomes common way for devout Catholics to support themselves and atone for their sins after retirement and/or the death of a spouse.
3. More immigration from China, Japan, Korea, southeast Asia, or other countries with significant Buddhist populations. Buddhist monasticism remains popular among the immigrant communities and even spreads to converts from other ethnic groups.
If all 3 of these happened, then there's a chance that 10% or more of the population could live in Protestant, Catholic, or Buddhist monastic communities.
1. Protestant groups such as the Shakers that practice celibacy and have a quasi-monastic lifestyle become much more popular and widespread in the 19th century.
2. Larger Catholic immigration, and monasticism becomes much more popular among Catholics - perhaps like Carlton suggests it becomes common way for devout Catholics to support themselves and atone for their sins after retirement and/or the death of a spouse.
3. More immigration from China, Japan, Korea, southeast Asia, or other countries with significant Buddhist populations. Buddhist monasticism remains popular among the immigrant communities and even spreads to converts from other ethnic groups.
If all 3 of these happened, then there's a chance that 10% or more of the population could live in Protestant, Catholic, or Buddhist monastic communities.
Transcendentalism
Make Transcendentalism really takes off as mass movement, and gets combined with Christian beliefs and "frontierism"
Or maybe the Latter Day Saints in ATL (or some branch thereof) becomes monastic-- in fact maybe in this TL, Joseph Smith might adopt some Transcendentalist ideas. After all, both Transcendentalism and Mormonism are inspired by American Romanticism that saw the continent as unspoiled, ideal Land.
Make Transcendentalism really takes off as mass movement, and gets combined with Christian beliefs and "frontierism"
Or maybe the Latter Day Saints in ATL (or some branch thereof) becomes monastic-- in fact maybe in this TL, Joseph Smith might adopt some Transcendentalist ideas. After all, both Transcendentalism and Mormonism are inspired by American Romanticism that saw the continent as unspoiled, ideal Land.
