Challange: USA/Sov alliance after ww2

NOT ASB DAMNIT

Now how do we get the USA-Soviet alliance to last after ww2? Please dont say America gets some sort of stupid communist coup.

Would be interesting to see what would come out of American/Soviet military joint projects eh?

Yes, i played too much AC.
 
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Maintenance of internal dissent because Stalin dies in the middle of the RCW/gets assassinated/is never born might help the United States have a better view of the Soviet Union after WW2. No "First Red Scare" because of a different President than Wilson and/or no entry of the US into the Great War might help the US have a still-strong Socialist movement that's sympathetic.

I'm not a particularly big fan of the theory that the USA decided to hate the Soviets because of Stalin, though, so I'm not sure that they would manage to stay buddies after WW2 even in a more socialist USA/more democratic USSR scenario.
 
NOT ASB DAMNIT

Now how do we get the USA-Soviet alliance to last after ww2? Please dont say America gets some sort of stupid communist coup.

Would be interesting to see what would come out of American/Soviet military joint projects eh?

Yes, i played too much AC.

Lets discuss the reasoning behind the USA-Soviet alliance in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a good adage that applies in the situation. When there is no more enemy your former friend fills the void more often then not.
 
Lets discuss the reasoning behind the USA-Soviet alliance in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a good adage that applies in the situation. When there is no more enemy your former friend fills the void more often then not.
So what about this, WW2 is a lot lot lot lot lot worse than in rl. Soviets agree to a UN idea to ban nukes. Soviets and Americans both decide that peace is a good idea and remain allied to prevent the crazy nuts in europe from setting the world in to another world war. Its the best i can think of sorry.

Also counter adage, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. ;)
 
Lyndon LaRouche become the president of the US... Or did you say NO ASBs?

Hmm.. Some kind of alliance? The great anti-colonial crusade? A joint intervention against the Kmer Rouge?
 
So what about this, WW2 is a lot lot lot lot lot worse than in rl. Soviets agree to a UN idea to ban nukes. Soviets and Americans both decide that peace is a good idea and remain allied to prevent the crazy nuts in europe from setting the world in to another world war. Its the best i can think of sorry.

Also counter adage, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. ;)

THat would actually make things worse unless you deal with the Soviet's large convential forces and their appearent threatening of Western Europe.

What you really need to change is the Soviets occupation of Eastern Europe,and it's threatening behaviour.

If constructive minded people on both sides get the Marshall Plan accepted by the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union demobilizes to a non-threatening level...

Then you have the possiblity of the UN being driven by a real desire for peace among the Security Council.

The Soviets and the US could actually work on peacefull or less violent de-colonization.

Hmmm, thinking of that perhaps what you really need is a less destructive WWII, so that decolonization is resisted more strongly by the European powers and the US and the Soviets both work on the other side, as responsible partners.

Cann't imagine what PODs would be required to get such behaviour from the SU though.
 
During one of the middle east wars... I can't remember if it was 68 or 73 probably 73 the Soviets asked the US if they wanted to dispatch joint forces on a semi peace keeping mission to replace the UN and stop the fighting immeidately. Nixon took it as a bluff but who know maybe it could have started real detente
 
Perhaps as the war dies down, Churchhill and DeGaul both (plus others) badly overplay their hands trying to retain/expand their nations positions in the post war setting.

Leading to the US and the USSR actually agreeing to some sort of spheres of influence at the expense of the crazies in Europe and Japan/China.

For this to work the positions have to be more equal. You cann't have the Soviets with half of Europe and threatening the other have without forcing the US to counter.

Perhaps...

Valkery succeeds, Churchhill still fearing Soviets manages to bully a sickly FDR into a negioated truce with a weakened Germany as a bufferstate in the middle of Europe,

Vichy France survives, starts trying to play games itself in attempt to retain/regain colonies.

Hmm, for CHina, do the devided North and South bit.
 
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Stalin dies 1937. Malenkov tries to assume power, but is brutally put down by Beria, who is in turn brutally put down by the Red Army. Marshall Tuchachevsky takes over as supreme Soviet Leader.

All is not well in the USSR however. Plenty of hard-core Communists remain, and Tuckachevsky's mild attempts at reform at met with resistance, which leads to hard reprisals by the Red Army.

Things are choatic enough that Tuchachevsky still inks that deal with Hitler. The Red Army still trashes the Japanese in Manchuria. There is no Winter War - Tuchachevsky's feelers of friendship to the west are still largely rebuffed, but there is more interest.

Handwaving away, WWII goes as in OTL. This is both good and bad for Russia; Tuchachevsky - unlike Stalin - has no problem believing the Germans are about to attack, and there is sanity in the Red Army's deployment in June 1941. No Purges mean a better officer corps. Unfortunantly, the lessons of the Winter War are unlearned, and the Germans slice through the Red Army as in OTL. A much better fighting retreat is managed, and the Red Army falls back in good order.

Unforunantly, at that point (October), the hard-liners stage a coup. Trotsky returns from Mexico, and leads a coup that kills Tuchachevsky, most of Stavka, and the policial leadership. Zhukov leads a counter-coup and kills Trotsky, but the damage is done. The Nazis take advantage of the disorders to seize Leningrad and Moscow, and the Red Army falls back to Gorki, Saratov and Stalingrad.

The rest of the war is more brutal. The Red Army uis greatly weakened, but better led. Zhukov is desperate, and with most hard-line Communists killed by the two coups, willing to embrace sensitble market reforms in return from aid from the WAllies. The Nazis advance deeper in 1942, but reach the end of their logistical tether short of Gorki.

The IJN srill commits national suicide at Pearl Harbor in Dec of 1941. Again with the Hand-Waving, the PTO goes about as in OTL. The US and UK fight back, and the war ends in mid 1946, with Hiroshima, Dresden, Berlin and Brelau as atomic ruins.

The Soviet Union is however devastated by the extra year and depth of Nazi occupation. The Red Army and US Army met at Warsaw, not the Elbe. The USSR is shattered, and in no position to threaten anyone. Furthermore, the political leadership of the USSR is distinctly un-Communist in many ways - including allowing for private land ownership to boost agriculatural production. There is no Warsaw Pact, nor NATO, and exhausted USSR acquiece to the idea of a sole Superpower - the USA.

The extra year of war also cost the US an extra 250,000 casualties, and made for an even bigger military. The US is weary of war as well, and happy to accept a strong, but only semi-communist USSR.

In China, Mao still wins, especially as the USA diverted more resources to defeating a tougher Nazi Germany. Maoism spreads throughout Asia to the disintrigrating European colonial empres. Ghandi adopts a non-violent form of Maoism for India, which lasts until his assasination in 1947. With violent, agrarian Maoist sentiment spreading thtough Asia and eventually Latin America, the USA is too busy putting out brush fires to worry about the USSR. With Maoism spreading to the Soviet Turkic Republics, the USSR is too. The USA and USSR stay allied against this tide...

Mike
 
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Mike

Damn! I like it, except
willing to embrace sensitble market reforms in return from aid from the WAllies.

in this context no American president is going to be concerned about internal Soviet economic reform. Prehaps due to breakdown of central control they are simply forced to accept a more free market simply to get some economic production, especially food.
 
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