Rex Romanum
Banned
Was there any possibility for the United States to enter the World War (either WWI or WWII, I don't care) and ended up NOT in the victorious side? The PODs can be anytime after 1899...
Challange: United States LOSE the World War
- Thread starter Rex Romanum
- Start date
Oh yes. In WWI, the Germans were planning a major offensive - I forget the name - just around the time the US was rushing its first troops into the trenches. I don't think it'd have been that big a change for France to collapse and sue for peace then, which would mean the US's allies lost the war right then.
In WWII... no. Just no. Even if the Nazis win a continental-scale victory in Europe, it'd turn out like Calbear's Anglo-American / Nazi War.
In WWII... no. Just no. Even if the Nazis win a continental-scale victory in Europe, it'd turn out like Calbear's Anglo-American / Nazi War.
It is impossible for the US to lose either world war as per OTL no matter how you slice it. The only way for them to lose is to either not join or in the case of the Pacific, suffer a big string of defeats and have a stalemate and even that would require nearly ASB ammounts of luck for the Japanese.
A vastly wider POD say civil war or even revolutionary war, split the country and sure there is a chance. In a Southern Victory scenario type thing have the US sue for peace, but absolutely lose? Short of a nuclear bomb on Washington not a snowballs chance in hell.
A vastly wider POD say civil war or even revolutionary war, split the country and sure there is a chance. In a Southern Victory scenario type thing have the US sue for peace, but absolutely lose? Short of a nuclear bomb on Washington not a snowballs chance in hell.
No Zimmerman telegram. Delay US entry till winter 1917. Passage of Declaration of War during Congressional recess by a thin margin.
Central Powers win in WWI, without the USA being involved. AH and the Ottomans fall apart though, while Germany is forced to hand land back to the Soviets due to manpower shortages and is slowly drained by resistance in France and Italy. The half broken Germany is then invaded by the Soviets in the 40s and the USA tries to help them, but the rest of Europe rises up and the American army in Europe is trapped and killed. They are forced to admit defeat.
World War I - US invades Mexico after Zimmerman Telegram goes slightly differently and lands in France only in time to see the german Spring Offensive reach Paris in May 1918. France capitulates, UK accepts a peace settlement, and the US admits "defeat".
World War II - Stalingrad goes differently with Chuikov having to surrender before Operation Neptune can kick off, Paulus is able to fortify his supply lines and even repel an attempted cross-Volga invasion force. Stalin moves troops to the South, allowing a chain of events that allows Germany to take out Russia by late 1943. A US invasion in 1944 goes disastrously wrong and the US is forced to the peace table, forcing concessions in Europe and permitting Japan to stay alive despite all the dead and injured
World War II - Stalingrad goes differently with Chuikov having to surrender before Operation Neptune can kick off, Paulus is able to fortify his supply lines and even repel an attempted cross-Volga invasion force. Stalin moves troops to the South, allowing a chain of events that allows Germany to take out Russia by late 1943. A US invasion in 1944 goes disastrously wrong and the US is forced to the peace table, forcing concessions in Europe and permitting Japan to stay alive despite all the dead and injured
Bored Accountant
Banned
The US would not be really "defeated" even if say Ludendorff's spring offensive in 1918 succeeds. It only means a negotiated peace and the US doesn't have to cede any of its territories or pay repatriations.
The only way I can see this happening is if some other country develops the atomic bomb first and uses it on a surprise strike on the US. And even so its more likely the US is going to get pissed off and fight back.
The only way I can see this happening is if some other country develops the atomic bomb first and uses it on a surprise strike on the US. And even so its more likely the US is going to get pissed off and fight back.
Theorical situation, game of mind;
if USA was for some ASB reason on the Axis side, would the Allies be screwed?
if USA was for some ASB reason on the Axis side, would the Allies be screwed?
Bored Accountant
Banned
Yes as the American and Japanese navies combined would vastly outnumber the British navy.
Two decades before then, would USA on the side of Germany, Austria and Turkey and all would change the war for both sides?
WWI delay
One scenario of thought of involves the Lusitania. It already had the munitions on board while in the US. What if something happens to cause an explosion while its in port loading passengers. Americans are killed and the British are exposed. THe Lusitania goes from being a reason to join the Allies to a reason to stay at least neutral.
One scenario of thought of involves the Lusitania. It already had the munitions on board while in the US. What if something happens to cause an explosion while its in port loading passengers. Americans are killed and the British are exposed. THe Lusitania goes from being a reason to join the Allies to a reason to stay at least neutral.
Oh, that's a good one! Lusitania explodes in dock. US is massively miffed at the Entente and Congress is PO'ed enough to have some loans fail and other contracts cancelled or delayed. Germany never sends the Zimmerman telegram but Wilson is able to get enough support for a formal declaration late 1917, Congress isn't at all willing to go whole hog on it though and delays in mustering are long enough to see the Germans knock France out with their Spring Offensive...
The US quickly calls for a white peace and Wilson's stroke is uncovered, leading to an epic scandal. The German diplomats actually have a sensible thought for once and quickly agree to 'forget' that the US ever declared...
Thus the US 'loses' WW1...
The only way for the US to 'lose' WW2 is if they remain isolationist and have to deal with a turbocharged Stalin or Hitler postwar...
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HeavyWeaponsGuy
Banned
That isn't WWI, nor would Germany try to control the entirety of France and Italy, all Germany ultimately wanted was to establish herself as a true great power in Europe, and while she was at it, assure the interests of herself and her allies.
Also this proposed WWII scenario isn't the same historical WWII... there is no way to accurately predict what would happen in such an insanely different situation than OTL.
Ok here's something I just found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Nothing ever proven but still an interesting POD idea. A little whiff of rebellion in the US would definately keep them from the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Nothing ever proven but still an interesting POD idea. A little whiff of rebellion in the US would definately keep them from the war.