Challange: Serbs perceived by world as victims of Yugoslav War

[Grimm Reaper]

The Serbs brought in on themselves.

Having decided to fight every province exercising provincial rights under Yugoslav law, they blew any pretense of legitimacy while making clear that they considered Yugoslavia to stand for Greater Serbia.

First Slovenia, then Croatia, then Bosnia...and after four or five cases no one believes anything they have to say.

Kosovo is also Serbia's fault. They shriek at the idea of Kosovo independence but are they going to grant Kosovo full and equal rights in the remnant of Yugoslavia? No. So basically they don't want Kosovo to leave but refuse to offer any remotely viable alternative.

 

[Doug M.]

Actually, the current deal that the Serbs are offering Kosovo is not bad -- full autonomy, local control of finances, no Serb troops or police in the province.

Not bad... just much, much too late. If they'd offered this at any time up to 1999, a lot of trouble could have been avoided.


Doug M.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Kosovo is also Serbia's fault. They shriek at the idea of Kosovo independence but are they going to grant Kosovo full and equal rights in the remnant of Yugoslavia? No. So basically they don't want Kosovo to leave but refuse to offer any remotely viable alternative.

They've offered them everything short of independence. It's the most viable alternative besides independence and the Kosovars refuse to accept it.

Actually, the current deal that the Serbs are offering Kosovo is not bad -- full autonomy, local control of finances, no Serb troops or police in the province.

Not bad... just much, much too late. If they'd offered this at any time up to 1999, a lot of trouble could have been avoided.


Doug M.

No reasonable government on Earth would have offered such a deal except out of desperation. It would have been like the German government negotiating a watered-down version of Versailles... before WWI even got started.

 

[Doug M.]

Actually, if Slobo had offered the Kosovars half this much, they would have jumped at it. Less than half. Much less.

Up until 1997, the Serbs could have kept Kosovo with pretty modest concessions to the Albanians -- probably less than the pre-1998 autonomy. Rugova was asking for a return to the 1989 status quo, but he'd made it pretty clear he was willing to negotiate. And up until 1997, most Albanians were still following Rugova.

Kosovo is one of the more obvious and tragic examples of inat at work in the Balkans.


Doug M.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Actually, if Slobo had offered the Kosovars half this much, they would have jumped at it. Less than half. Much less.

Well that's part of my point, you can't reasonably expect the Serbs to have offered Kosovo a deal like this 10 years ago. And that's not because Milosevic was a dick (he was, but not for refusing to chop up Serbia itself) but due to common sense. So the real question is who should be blamed for the failed negotiations at Rambouillet, 'cause one side clearly pushed too far there and I've heard conflicting opinions on which one it was.

 

[grdja83]

I realy dont want to get involved in this, as i cant possibly be neutral.

But just one thing. War in Slovenia had nothing to do with Serbia and Milosevic. Brilliant economist, pro western Ante Markovic, premier of then still existing Yugoslavia, held his job a bit to seriously. Slobo had no interest in Slovenia, Serb population there was insignificant. Tudjman was as obsessed with Greater Croatia as Slobo with Serbia, but wanted Slovenia on friendly side.

Markovic tried to temporarily delay Slovenian independence by having JNA secure border points (and hardliner communists in JNA were very pro military action). It might almost be that no one of them actually expected Slovenians to fire back, let alone slaughter mostly recruit in training made up units sent there.

War in Bosnia started in a way to complicated and multi sided for me to try and explain without doing it wrong.
And war in Croatia was a mess with JNA and independent Serbian paramilitaries, and Croat troops screwing stuff up.

Just to note, the pinnacle of stupidity. Vukovar had a Serb majority. Is there anything else to be said.

Kosovo war could have went with a more realistic media picture. All NATO investigation after the conflict, with forensic teams on ground, provided number far far lower than those provided by Western media during the war. Even State Department was throwing around numbers in excess of 100,000. After 8 years of examinations, total count for probable violence victims over entire '98.-99. conflict is lower than 10,000.

I mean, Racak incident started the war. Not a single forensics team could came up with conclusive report. It seams a number of victims had used firearms before death. And official numbers make no sense. Police forces clash with KLA militants, only dead Albanians are civilians???