Challange: Make the USA either Fascist or Communist
- Thread starter Domoviye
- Start date
Well, if you can make J. Edgar Hoover or Joe McCarthy POTUS, that would do 99% of the work. You couldn't get a Nazi US, but definitely a far-right one.
So no one has mentioned the business plot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
The Business Plot has been shredded so many times, I've lost count. As I said, either Hoover, Lindbergh, Long, McCarthy (or daresay more than one) must become POTUS. There's TLs with POTUS Hoover and POTUS McCarthy. I'll even give you the latter's name: "Tail-Gunner in the Pilot's Seat" by wolfpaw. An excellent read.
Thats why its a challenge. And why I stated "some form of..." it can still be a democracy just a very far left or right one.
I'm going with RogueBeaver on this one. Although if it was seriously overhyped in the newspapers, and maybe lead to an assassination attempt by an overzealous idiot, it could have the opposite effect.
I saw that TL while using the search engine. Haven't had a chance to read it yet though.
In OTL, FDR was cautioned by friends not to pursue the presidency unless he was ready to assume the role of dictator should the economy worsen. After all, examples like Italy, Germany and Russia were not encouraging.
One of FDR's steps was to outlaw gold a month after taking office. For a country dedicated to freedom and the right to life, liberty and property, a US president outlawed money. Citizens were to turn in any gold coins in excess of $100 or coins that were part of a collection. [The $100 limit was eliminated in 1954 and gold was re-legalized in 1974.]
We did not become a dictatorship because FDR knew when to stop. Had he kept going, we could have had a command economy.
Bottom up or Top down?
A system change either to open fascism or communism bottom up is difficult, and the country adopting it would probably not be the US as we know it.
The most likely way is a radicalization in a huge economic crisis leading to very different leading fractions in various parts of the country. Therefore, several states (or city vs state governments) couldn't accept the national government anymore, and would secede (or declare it deposed). [Think civil wars on state level - with a national government unwilling or incapable of putting the lid on it]. So the US undergoes a period close to failed-state ism. Eventually, one regional group / or a coalition of regional groups, gets predominant in this civil war, and proclaims a New United States (or something called differently) at gunpoint, re-unifying most of what used to be the US.
The other approach is that a person or group that is - or becomes - deeply convinced that such a regime is a necessity actually ends up on top of the national government, but without the public noticing it. Then, they exploit a HUGE crisis, reinforce it to become an absolute disaster, and blame the disaster successfully. Under maximum hyperbole, the citizens are then called upon to "fight the imminent danger", take action against "traitors / enemies of the [American] people". Once mob rule starts, congress will approve "urgent emergency measures", and mob gangs will suppress coordinated opposition. The government then sets up a (nominally bi-partisan) coordination committee[CC], with a lot of branch offices, that try to direct the mob rule. Where it gets out of hand, the army will be sent in to "restore order". After a while, elections are held on schedule, with both Republicans and Democrats running only candidates approved by the CC ("true patriots"). After that, a constitutional amendment (or a brand new constitution) should not be to difficult to pass - Congress and state legislatures are filled with loyal regime supporters.
A system change either to open fascism or communism bottom up is difficult, and the country adopting it would probably not be the US as we know it.
The most likely way is a radicalization in a huge economic crisis leading to very different leading fractions in various parts of the country. Therefore, several states (or city vs state governments) couldn't accept the national government anymore, and would secede (or declare it deposed). [Think civil wars on state level - with a national government unwilling or incapable of putting the lid on it]. So the US undergoes a period close to failed-state ism. Eventually, one regional group / or a coalition of regional groups, gets predominant in this civil war, and proclaims a New United States (or something called differently) at gunpoint, re-unifying most of what used to be the US.
The other approach is that a person or group that is - or becomes - deeply convinced that such a regime is a necessity actually ends up on top of the national government, but without the public noticing it. Then, they exploit a HUGE crisis, reinforce it to become an absolute disaster, and blame the disaster successfully. Under maximum hyperbole, the citizens are then called upon to "fight the imminent danger", take action against "traitors / enemies of the [American] people". Once mob rule starts, congress will approve "urgent emergency measures", and mob gangs will suppress coordinated opposition. The government then sets up a (nominally bi-partisan) coordination committee[CC], with a lot of branch offices, that try to direct the mob rule. Where it gets out of hand, the army will be sent in to "restore order". After a while, elections are held on schedule, with both Republicans and Democrats running only candidates approved by the CC ("true patriots"). After that, a constitutional amendment (or a brand new constitution) should not be to difficult to pass - Congress and state legislatures are filled with loyal regime supporters.
FDR did not 'outlaw' gold. He simply ordered that the hoarding of gold by individuals stop and that individuals put their money back into the banks to put a tourniquet on the economy.
'Had he kept going'? What exactly do you mean by that? The Congress might have went along with most of FDR's early proposals without much debate, but they were by far independent, as were the Courts, of the President. The single time that the public perceived Roosevelt did push too far, the public turned on him (Court Reorganization) and rewarded the conservatives in Congress.
If you want a dictatorship in the U.S., you have to rid yourself of Franklin Roosevelt, IMHO. The New Deal prevented corporatists and communists from crawling out of the holes created by the collapse of capitalism and taking full advantage of them to ensure political power. If Roosevelt is taken out a month before his inauguration by Zangara, or the Business Plot succeeds, then everything is up in the air. Garner, Roosevelt's VP, was just as conservative, if not moreso, than Herbert Hoover. That's not going to put any of the out of work men and women at ease.
If the New Deal fails, or FDR isn't elected in 1932, you could possibly have the CPUSA shoot up in popularity, to the point of civil war.
Teleology
Banned
One classic scenario is that FDR gets it from Zangara, Garner proves to be a lame duck, and the US wobbles between the far-left Wallace to the far-right Lindbergh before eventually succumbing to a previously unknown fascist who spent this period building up a powerful paramilitary and political front.
If Churchill gets into office earlier and declares war on the Soviet Union and Ireland, alienating France and England's potential allies, then the Nazis could take Europe and the US might sink into isolationism. Combine this with Zangara's assassination of Roosevelt and Garner serving two terms, keeping the military outdated (still using cavalry, navy and air-force weak). You would have a US with an inferior military in the position to have to choose between being the junior partner of either the Soviet Union or Nazi Europe. This would wreak havoc on American culture.
If Churchill gets into office earlier and declares war on the Soviet Union and Ireland, alienating France and England's potential allies, then the Nazis could take Europe and the US might sink into isolationism. Combine this with Zangara's assassination of Roosevelt and Garner serving two terms, keeping the military outdated (still using cavalry, navy and air-force weak). You would have a US with an inferior military in the position to have to choose between being the junior partner of either the Soviet Union or Nazi Europe. This would wreak havoc on American culture.
The New Deal did fail. You could have it succeed and FDR starts going further and further left, and no one tries to stop him because he got them out of the Depression.
)Fail by what standards. Because it worked until Roosevelt tried to rebalance the budget in 37 and sent the economy into another part of the depression.