Challange: Hawaiian Empire

You challange is to make Hawaii into an empire that is a major world power. You can have a PoD no earlier than 1778, and hawaii must be on the verge of being a major power no later than the detonation of the worlds first nuke. No post is to take place with post modern day technology.
 
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You challange is to make Hawaii into an empire that is a major world power. You can have a PoD no earlier than 1778, and hawaii must be on the verge of being a major power no later than the end of the second world war. No post is to take place in the future.
With a POD around 1778, there won't be a second world war.
 
With a POD around 1778, there won't be a second world war.
You could have a war called the "Second World War", but put it around 3000 or so, thus giving you more time to complete the challenge. ;)

This is a rather tough one, I think... I mean, I guess you could have them take over some of the nearby islands like Tonga or something, but they still won't be a major world power and someone who actually is is still likely to snap them up sooner or later...
 
You could have a war called the "Second World War", but put it around 3000 or so, thus giving you more time to complete the challenge. ;)

This is a rather tough one, I think... I mean, I guess you could have them take over some of the nearby islands like Tonga or something, but they still won't be a major world power and someone who actually is is still likely to snap them up sooner or later...

The parameters are now at the detonation of the worlds first nuke instead of WW2.:D
 
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A horrendous plague strikes, and quick thinking by the Hawaiians in cutting off all outside contact spares the islands. The entire rest of the human race is wiped out, so Hawaii ends up with a word empire. Later, when developing nuclear power, an accident causes a detonation.
 
A horrendous plague strikes, and quick thinking by the Hawaiians in cutting off all outside contact spares the islands. The entire rest of the human race is wiped out, so Hawaii ends up with a word empire. Later, when developing nuclear power, an accident causes a detonation.
So...Hawaii is like Madagascar in Pandemic II?
 

jose1357

Donor
Basically, It took over 150 years to unite the islands, and even then Kamehameha never could invade Kauai...and that was w/ western help, and with minimal resources outside of foodstuffs well...
 
A horrendous plague strikes, and quick thinking by the Hawaiians in cutting off all outside contact spares the islands. The entire rest of the human race is wiped out, so Hawaii ends up with a word empire. Later, when developing nuclear power, an accident causes a detonation.

No plague in history ever had a 100% death rate
 
A horrendous plague strikes, and quick thinking by the Hawaiians in cutting off all outside contact spares the islands. The entire rest of the human race is wiped out, so Hawaii ends up with a word empire. Later, when developing nuclear power, an accident causes a detonation.

And John for the win. :cool:
 
Basically, It took over 150 years to unite the islands, and even then Kamehameha never could invade Kauai...and that was w/ western help, and with minimal resources outside of foodstuffs well...

so we're looking at something simular to the 'Samurai at the Alamo' or 'Famous People in Alternate Realities thread'
both are ASB though, and I should know, I made the 'Hawaiian Confederacy' for FPiAR.
 
The most realistic way would be the Hawaiians to head a Federated Empire, along the lines of Prussia in Germany, composed of the major island nations of Polynesia. Historically there were attempts to ally with Samoa. It shouldn't be too hard to consider unifying Tonga, Nauru, Fiji and the Maori islands. The Pacific was close to being 'the Last Frontier' in the 1830s and 1840s and expansion in the region wasn't directly driven by Great Powers until the 1880s when steam power became important.

I've figured out a timeline but have never posted it. Two crucial nations to include are the Maori and Nauru. Both island groups offer immediate and long term access to raw materials both for trade and eventual industrialization. Another point of expansion would be for Hawaiian forces to quickly annex German holdings in the Pacific instead of the Japanese. It also appears that in one of the many early 20th century naval races between the ABC Powers of Latin America, Chile offered to sell either the Galapagos or Easter Island.
 
The most realistic way would be the Hawaiians to head a Federated Empire, along the lines of Prussia in Germany, composed of the major island nations of Polynesia. Historically there were attempts to ally with Samoa. It shouldn't be too hard to consider unifying Tonga, Nauru, Fiji and the Maori islands. The Pacific was close to being 'the Last Frontier' in the 1830s and 1840s and expansion in the region wasn't directly driven by Great Powers until the 1880s when steam power became important.

I've figured out a timeline but have never posted it. Two crucial nations to include are the Maori and Nauru. Both island groups offer immediate and long term access to raw materials both for trade and eventual industrialization. Another point of expansion would be for Hawaiian forces to quickly annex German holdings in the Pacific instead of the Japanese. It also appears that in one of the many early 20th century naval races between the ABC Powers of Latin America, Chile offered to sell either the Galapagos or Easter Island.

It could not be the Galapagos since Ecuador owns them.

A story for an Hawaiian Empire could be possible if they had a powerful navy. So have the UK. help Hawaii create a powerful Pacific Navy with which they could use to create a Pacific Empire. So the UK. would have a powerful ally on the other side of the world who would give them preferential treatment. And it would, in UK. eyes, keep the growing power of the US in check since the US would be in the middle.
This UK. help must include Industrial development. The Hawaiian population would also have had to grow.
 
You guys have little knowledge of Hawaii at the time. It wouldn't work, too much death and too much settlers. The only way I can perceive is if Kamehameha I managed to consolidate his power to the point where he marginalized all his ali'i then controlled the whaling and sandalwood trade to the point where he builds a massive armed force with trained westerners. Basically a "Meiji" of course it's SOOOO ASB because of the mentality that Hawaiians of that time had. You have to remember these were a people who would work until noon or just before noon then spend the rest of the day playing because there was little else to do. The mentality to improve just isn't there.
 
Urusai[InFi];2221071 said:
You guys have little knowledge of Hawaii at the time. It wouldn't work, too much death and too much settlers. The only way I can perceive is if Kamehameha I managed to consolidate his power to the point where he marginalized all his ali'i then controlled the whaling and sandalwood trade to the point where he builds a massive armed force with trained westerners. Basically a "Meiji" of course it's SOOOO ASB because of the mentality that Hawaiians of that time had. You have to remember these were a people who would work until noon or just before noon then spend the rest of the day playing because there was little else to do. The mentality to improve just isn't there.

Frankly, I appears to me that you have little knowledge of Hawaii at the time. All I have to fall back upon is growing up there, spent some time a Kamehameha Schools and attended the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Including serving as Secretary of the Friends of the Royal Hawaiian Band and having at least lunch one time with the Curator of Iolani Palace and Quentin Kawananakoa, Heir to the Throne - not to mention knowing a few members of the Order of Kamehameha and the Order of Kaahumanu.

However, you are correct in the Hawaii could never accomplish a 'Meiji' style modernization on its own. Your example of work and play is a stereotype that is incorrect. The mentality to improve is there or at least was present in the Hawaiian race before annexation by the US.

One has to realistically curb the decimation of the populace and it is possible. The 1820-1850s is probably a time in which very little can be modified, but there are POD available that could easily be exploited.
 
David:

I was raised in Hawaii too and am part-Hawaiian, though I was kicked out of Kamehameha instead of graduating. Still, I have to say a greater Pacific empire is pretty much ASB territory, though not for the reasons the previous poster said. Logistics, logistics, logistics is my reason. Sorry.
 
David:

I was raised in Hawaii too and am part-Hawaiian, though I was kicked out of Kamehameha instead of graduating. Still, I have to say a greater Pacific empire is pretty much ASB territory, though not for the reasons the previous poster said. Logistics, logistics, logistics is my reason. Sorry.

There is nothing to be sorry about. It would be very much a stretch of the imagination for Kalakaua's Federated Empire of Oceania to come about. If writing an ATL one would have to exploit - with a good deal of fictional lubrication and spectacular timing - a lot of missed chances and perceived chances.

Could I create a realistic Hawaiian Empire for a short story a la Turtledove - yes I could. Could I create a realistic Hawaiian Empire that would withstand my critical historical knowledge - no. There is only so much one can do with a bunch of islands - even if it means expanding and annexing more islands. Finding an income base besides sugar is also a little hard.

However, realistically, the last ten years of the 19th century are a critical threshold. There were very few annexations occuring globally as had occured the previous five decades. Had Hawaii remained independent - with certain strings attached - in 1900, it most probably would have remained independent for the 20th century.
 
How about an easier challenge -

"Before 2010, the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world is someone who was born in Hawaii ;) "
 
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