Challange: Biggest, Badest, Coolest Naval Battle: On a River or Lake

[Berra]

We have discussed naval matters before. However, most discussions focused on blue water navies. But what about riverine warfare. What are the largest, longest running and most interesting battles?

What else could be interesting?

 

[The Kiat]

America and Britain as enemies with carriers and dreadnoughts on the Great Lakes?

 

[Just Leo]

The Battle of Put-in-Bay (lake Erie) During the War of 1812. Perhaps the carrier Wolverine could participate through quantum time displacement a la "Final Countdown". Wolverine and Sable were the only carriers to operate on lakes. Side-wheelers both.

 

[BlairWitch749]

weren't there some nifty gunboat battles on lake victoria in ww1

 

[bobbis14]

America and Britain as enemies with carriers and dreadnoughts on the Great Lakes?

Seconded ...

 

[fernerdave]

a running battle/chase down the Mississippi in the ACW?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

How about the 110 gun USS New Orleans vs the 120 gun HMS St Laurence on Lake Ontario in 1815 if the war goes long.


Edit: Oops! this is the POST 1900 forum. Oh well, several other people responded as I did....

 

[catboy637]

Why not some type of Native American superstate Navy battle with the USA or UK on the Missisipi?

 

[Snowman23]

A ATL where the UK and USA are enemies ending in a epic battle on Lake Huron or Michigan with Great Lake Battleships, cruisers, carriers, and subs. Or maybe a situation with the Caspian Sea....

 

[Expat]

I loved the pirate river battle in the Dutch East Indies in Flashman's Lady, which I believe was based on real events.

Or how about bad whether grounds the air cover over Stalingrad. Did the Nazis have a presence on the Volga? Could we get a large-scale small craft engagement?

Also, I'm surprised there wasn't more of a naval theater on the Mississippi during the Civil War. But then I guess even if confederate borders can cut out a yankee gunboat, where do they take it? Still, there could be lots more sabotage from small boats, resulting in earlier attempts to make a patrol boat, voila, small boat warfare.

 

[Atreus]

Maybe an independent confederacy or a more drawn out western theatre, leading to gunboat combat along the various rivers (particularly the Ohio and Mississippi)?

Aside from that, gunboat battles along lake victoria during WWI< some major US-UK clash along the great lakes, maybe a western naval espedition up the Tangtze or Huang he river in the face of chinese opposition?

 

[The Sandman]

North Vietnamese gunboats on the Mekong would be interesting. The Arab-Israeli wars also have potential, especially in the Nile delta or the Suez Canal. The Iran-Iraq war could have some enjoyable brown-water fights. Lake Garda during World War I. Riverine forces in the Spanish Civil War, or the Russian one for that matter.

 

[Fletch]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a naval battle on Lake Tanganyika.

 

[Gonzaga]

In importance, maybe the battle of Riachuelo, during the War of the Tripple Alliance. It ended Paraguayan threat to Argentina, allowing to the Alliance the control of Paraná River.

 

[NHBL]

Great Lakes...

The great lakes could have some nasty battles, but I doubt there would be any carriers. The lakes are small enough that it would make more sense to have land based air--those air bases don't SINK! If there's support structure at multiple locations, the air groups could be redeployed quickly from one base to another.

(Incidently, Avalanche Press has a Great Lakes game out.)

 

[Berra]

I think that part of cool is beeing realistic. Hence no war on the US mainland against a anglophone enemy.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Or how about bad whether grounds the air cover over Stalingrad. Did the Nazis have a presence on the Volga? Could we get a large-scale small craft engagement?

Good point.

If I'm not mistaken, the Soviets transported riverine boats to the Donau (or another German river) to continue to use them in combat.

If I'm not mistaken, these were mostly used in support of attacks on lands, just like pretty much everything the SU owned.
Not exactly large boats or used in coordinated massive attacks, but how awesome are boats with tankturrets?

 

[David S Poepoe]

U.S. Navy Plan Crimson

The great lakes could have some nasty battles, but I doubt there would be any carriers. The lakes are small enough that it would make more sense to have land based air--those air bases don't SINK! If there's support structure at multiple locations, the air groups could be redeployed quickly from one base to another.

(Incidently, Avalanche Press has a Great Lakes game out.)

I've got that game. Its pretty neat, but the designer gave some funky gun calibers to the 'Great Lakes' battleships used by the British and Americans.

 

[NHBL]

Riverine battleships

Some rivers are deep enough that a full sized battleship could sail a bit upriver to provide fire support. I seem to rememver (but can't be sure if I'm right) something about the USSR doing just that. Battleships vs Panzers, anyone?

 

[Jukra]

Some rivers are deep enough that a full sized battleship could sail a bit upriver to provide fire support. I seem to rememver (but can't be sure if I'm right) something about the USSR doing just that. Battleships vs Panzers, anyone?

Not something as outrageous, but on Lake Ladoga a number of battles were fought between Finnish, Luftwaffe and Italian forces on the other side (talk about some mix!) and Soviet naval forces on the other side. With Vuoksi giving access from the axis side and perhaps with the White Sea canal remaining on Soviet hands (less succesful Finnish advance) we could see ships up to destroyer size, maybe even light cruises, fighting in Lake Ladoga.