CH: Make Voyager a Good Series

[Thande]

All the ingredients for a good series were there, except perhaps the problem of coming up with recurring baddies when you're supposed to be moving home at high speed.

What it needed was the recognition that this needed a different approach to writing. You couldn't just reheat TNG scripts, when big things happened to the show it had to have a long-term effect. You needed story arcs and character development. The writers played with it a bit in the first two seasons before chickening out.

Voyager would have benefited considerably from the writing approach that was eventually adopted for season 3 of Enterprise: not without its flaws by any means, but it correctly got across the feel that they were a long way from home, stranded, and their actions had consequences (like the damage that visibly accumulated on the ship throughout the season arc).

 

[Mike Stearns]

Voyager would have benefited considerably from the writing approach that was eventually adopted for season 3 of Enterprise: not without its flaws by any means, but it correctly got across the feel that they were a long way from home, stranded, and their actions had consequences (like the damage that visibly accumulated on the ship throughout the season arc).

Agreed. Voyager is a really fun shoot em/action show, and in that sense, its very enteraining, but Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, Battlestar Galactica and Stargate Universe are all the show that Voyager wanted to be, but Voyager never comes up to that level because the crew never runs out of food, nothing ever breaks that can't be fixed and the ship is always totally pristine.

 

[Makemakean]

Agreed. Voyager is a really fun shoot em/action show, and in that sense, its very enteraining, but Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, Battlestar Galactica and Stargate Universe are all the show that Voyager wanted to be, but Voyager never comes up to that level because the crew never runs out of food, nothing ever breaks that can't be fixed and the ship is always totally pristine.

I don't think anyone has put into words my thoughts just as well as you just did.

 

[El Danoo]

One thing I always hated about Voyager was no matter how many conflicts they were involved, no matter how many times they got shot by hostile vessels from the very numerous nations of the delta quadrant, Voyager and her crew never really changed. To add to continuity to the series, Voyager should have adopted different technologies from the nations they interact with (e.g. one of the nacelle's are a different colour, one of the shuttles has obvious delta quadrant origins). Also losing crew members as time passed on through conflict and replacing them with delta quadrant species. Janeway can then have a harder time with the various interspecies conflict being brought personally to her ship.

In the end, Voyager limps home as a multi-species vessel made up of new and 'alien' technology.

 

[Thande]

Agreed. Voyager is a really fun shoot em/action show, and in that sense, its very enteraining, but Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, Battlestar Galactica and Stargate Universe are all the show that Voyager wanted to be, but Voyager never comes up to that level because the crew never runs out of food, nothing ever breaks that can't be fixed and the ship is always totally pristine.

Good sum-up. My absolute favourite example of this concerns the shuttlecraft. Ignore the fact that the ship has nowhere near enough room on board for the number of different shuttles appear even if a shuttle wasn't destroyed in practically every episode where shuttles feature. Ignore the fact that the door on the shuttlebay isn't physically big enough to get the Delta Flyer through, hence why they never showed it emerging on-camera. But in the episode where they introduce the Delta Flyer, "Extreme Risk", Chakotay asks "But why do we need that, we've got a full complement of shuttles". In all seriousness

One thing I forgot to mention but I think SFDEBRIS has brought up in his reviews--the idea that part of the crew would be made up of Maquis who didn't get on with Starfleet methods was a very good one, but they never did anything with it, there was never any real conflict or drama. It shouldn't just have been Seska and Jonas doing deals with the Kazon (or whoever), they should have had Chakotay himself secretly playing both sides and eventually getting burned, only to side with Janeway in the end when it came down to the crunch. Or something along those lines.

 

[Mike Stearns]

But in the episode where they introduce the Delta Flyer, "Extreme Risk", Chakotay asks "But why do we need that, we've got a full complement of shuttles". In all seriousness

Don't forget the fact that they build a completely new class of shuttle FROM SCRATCH, in ONE episode. I could see them having to replace shuttles over time and fixing design flaws in their off the shelf hardware in the process, as well as having to design their new shuttles for situations that Starfleet engineers in the Alpha Quadrant have never had to think about before, but maybe over the course of a season or two, and certainly not in the space of a single episode.

My other favourite example is the photon torpedoes, Janeway explicitly states that Voyager has a complipment of 32 photon torpedoes and that once they're gone, they're gone, but she expends nearly a hundred pieces of ordinance over the course of the series and no attempt is made to explain where they all came from...

 

[The Kiat]

abandon the "episodic" nature of the show in which everything returns to normal by the end of the episode and instead focus on the larger story-arc

Have to agree with this. Episodic series tend to be bleh compared to, say, Babylon 5.

 

[The Kiat]

Don't forget the fact that they build a completely new class of shuttle FROM SCRATCH, in ONE episode. I could see them having to replace shuttles over time and fixing design flaws in their off the shelf hardware in the process, as well as having to design their new shuttles for situations that Starfleet engineers in the Alpha Quadrant have never had to think about before, but maybe over the course of a season or two, and certainly not in the space of a single episode.

My other favourite example is the photon torpedoes, Janeway explicitly states that Voyager has a complipment of 32 photon torpedoes and that once they're gone, they're gone, but she expends nearly a hundred pieces of ordinance over the course of the series and no attempt is made to explain where they all came from...

Actually, that's one of the easiest things to explain using their so-called canon. The answer is replicators. I see no reason why they couldn't just replicate the parts and assemble new weapons and shuttles. Crickey, it wasn't like they had anything else to do so far from home than design a new shuttle.

 

[Coalition]

Actually, that's one of the easiest things to explain using their so-called canon. The answer is replicators. I see no reason why they couldn't just replicate the parts and assemble new weapons and shuttles. Crickey, it wasn't like they had anything else to do so far from home than design a new shuttle.

Replicators require mass to make the parts, and a power system to put them together. Additionally, there are flaws in stuff a Replicator makes, including cases where the taste of food can be off compared to the real thing.

You also have the case where trading for goods from another star system is cheaper than walking up to a Replicator booth and ordering an item (DS9 trading vs using the Replicator for everything).

If you are arguing that the Replicator takes directly from the ship's power supplies, that is even worse. If you want to make a 100 kilo item, using direct power, and assuming 100% efficiency (not likely), you need at minimum 50 kilos matter and 50 kilos antimatter. That will suck up your fuel supply quickly.

Let alone there are items a Replicator cannot make.


As to designing the Delta Flyer, that is easy. You can have Tom working for several episodes beforehand, running simulations over and over, and the shape of the shutle changes slightly each time. He also talks to the other ship personnel for ideas, complaints, tweaks, etc. By the time he starts to actually assemble it, he has already organized the parts, the design has been checked by several senior officers, and the warp system has been extensively tested via computer.

Even then there should have been teething issues.

 

[The Kiat]

Replicators require mass to make the parts, and a power system to put them together. Additionally, there are flaws in stuff a Replicator makes, including cases where the taste of food can be off compared to the real thing.

Plenty of hydrogen out there to be broken down into energy, and condensed as other elements. I'm just thinking how a replicator should work, as opposed to however it's written in canon technical manuals.

Oh, I also agree on spreading the Delta Flyer's construction over a few weeks.

 

[Mike Stearns]

As to designing the Delta Flyer, that is easy. You can have Tom working for several episodes beforehand, running simulations over and over, and the shape of the shutle changes slightly each time. He also talks to the other ship personnel for ideas, complaints, tweaks, etc. By the time he starts to actually assemble it, he has already organized the parts, the design has been checked by several senior officers, and the warp system has been extensively tested via computer.

Yeah. Thanks to the holodeck, designing the Flyer should be fairly easy. I'm sure that there is a basic starship design program somewhere in the engineering database, similar to the one Geordi used in Ship in a Bottle, but actually building a spacecraft is a highly exact science, even for people who grew up in an FTL capable civilization and are thoroughly versed in the nuances and technology of space flight, and particularly in a situation such as Voyager's. Battlestar's Flight of the Phoenix deals with this alot more realistically, where Tyrol has to scrounge and scavenge and beg, borrow and steal parts to build the Blackbird. In contrast, the Voyager crew builds the Flyer without any trouble at all. The replicators can make some parts, yes, but not all of them. It has been canonically stated in other episodes that there are some materials that replicators cannot reproduce, which means that the crew would have to find parts from alternate sources, which means that their situation may necessitate designing and building a new shuttle that is spefically suited to their needs, but that it should be fairly difficult, which means that it should take at least 4 to 6 episodes and possibly as long as an entire season.

 

[Shooter]

Just let them keep the original premise: a starship stranded 80 years from home without easily new supplies and repairs and a crew made out of two different factions that have to cooperate even though they used to be enemies. And thus avoid making it Star Trek TNG part 2 with a weaker cast and writers than the original.

There are several problems with the show;
1. How can they ever run out of spare parts with replicator tech?
2. Why on earth would they need to cooperate with prior enemies?
3. Given the liberal predilections of all involved, why are the factions so anti each other?
4. Given the past demonstrated performance of lesser and older ships why would it ever take more than 80 HOURs to get home?
Just a few of the many failures of the thought processes that went into the show!

 

[MattII]

1. How can they ever run out of spare parts with replicator tech?

Because there are things the replicators can't replicate. I think this has been mentioned previously.

4. Given the past demonstrated performance of lesser and older ships why would it ever take more than 80 HOURs to get home?

If you're thinking of The Final Frontier, I think that one's been officially written out of the continuity, and with good reason since it almost sunk the franchise.

 

[TxCoatl1970]

Shooting from the lip

Voyager had several issues that crippled it

• We've discussed the replicator issues but handwavium was the instrument of choice for dealing with so many of the issues in the writer's room that it made narrative continuity an oxymoron.
• Captain Janeway's character wasn't just schizy, she and so many members of the cast didn't have much moral arc going on, therefore no development.
• I like the patchwork Voyager ship and crew idea, but other SF shows were doing that (Farscape) they felt any change would be sacrilegious to either the ship or the crew.
• As to the canon conflicts, Maquis vs Federation and so forth, see above on Point #1. Nobody could agree on what the details were so they made it up as they went along. Gene hadn't died yet, so they couldn't go too dark with it as DS9 did and so many other things.

Making it a good series:

• Consistency in showrunners, making a bible everyone in the writer's room swears on as to the canon of what's what, tweakable, and so on as far as world-setting and eventual story arc. I Like what JMS did for Babylon 5 and Ronald Moore did for DS9 and BSG. They evolved their approaches after their experiences with TNG and ST:Voyager though IIRC. YMMV.
• Allowing the characters some room for growth and change but not the weekly "taken over by alien of the week" or "sucked into the holodeck going haywire" as the gags for characters acting out of character. I mean, sure, everyone has aboard has a specialty, but wouldn't you expect folks to develop out of their comfort zones taking levels in badass in unexpected ways after various experiences?

 

[lloyd007]

Agreed. Voyager is a really fun shoot em/action show, and in that sense, its very enteraining, but Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, Battlestar Galactica and Stargate Universe are all the show that Voyager wanted to be, but Voyager never comes up to that level because the crew never runs out of food, nothing ever breaks that can't be fixed and the ship is always totally pristine.

Even if the crew was able to keep Voyager in tip top shape (which is possible) things should have morphed throughout the seasons... heck... you can make Voyager's crew badass enough that the ship is, for lack of a better term 'pimped out,' but it was disappointing to have the ship remain unchanged throughout the seasons. They could have done so much more, even keeping the episodic nature of the series.

Overall I thought Voyager was a decent series, but the missed opportunities abound in it.

 

[M79]

- Replace the writers after the 5th or 6th episode of season 1
- All problems from prior episodes linger into the next show until they are definitively solved (Enterprise did this in the second season and it was done rather well!)
- Nothing comes for free, have Voyager have to trade *more* for necessary parts or second-class tech when needed, maybe with a ferengui crewman/crewwoman. Maybe they replicate fakes just to get to the next episode and have to outrun the authorities
- Quit having Tom Paris try to make 20th century viewers feel at home in the 24th century frontier
- Have Six, Seven, and Eight of Nine with occasional shuttle flights involving significant turbulence
- Force the ship to deal with generational issues, new families for just about everyone, children, etc
- Take one year off for every two seasons and have the writers have to fill in the gaps if backlogged content is too much to deal with

 

[ColeMercury]

- Have Six, Seven, and Eight of Nine with occasional shuttle flights involving significant turbulence

Are those your nicknames for Seven of Nine's tits?

 

[Mike Stearns]

I had another thought about how to make Voyager a better show. Don't have the crew be automatically totally fluent in every single language that they encounter in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Are those your nicknames for Seven of Nine's tits?

I think he's suggesting that 3 sets would be even more fun than just 1. IMO (small, medium and large, appeal to everyone?)

 

[SiddFinch1]

Agree with many ideas

either re-work the maquis tension to last longer or use another species- either cardies or romulans- Think Garak from Ds9

Make Janeway a science officer instead of captain already to create more conflict betwen her and her new XO from the other ship as to how to handle situations.

The Equinox story could have lasted longer- once the Equinox crew came on board, use them to tell stories instead of having them disappear

I would have kept the Tuvix story going for 2-3 episodes- just have him as a regular crewman for a couple of episodes and then Janeway learns how to undo it and bring back Neelix and Tuvok. Creates much more of a conflict

The ship should have been battered and held together by duct tape ala nuBSG isntead of being pristine

Dont ruin the Borg through overuse and weakening them so much