CH: Make Voyager a Good Series

[RPW@Cy]

For instance, an episode similar to BSG's episode "33" where Voyager has to keep running away from the Borg for days, and how it strains the crew mentally and physically. And the ship would not magically look brand new every episode.

(However, it could probably butterfly away BSG-2003.

This. In a lot of ways, the BSG remake was what Voyager should have been - just look up the thread, most of the ideas for improving Voyager would make it look more like Galactica. Do it well enough and there might not be a place in the market for Galactica. Speaking personally, I'd rather have a rubbish Voyager and BSG than an okay voyager and no BSG.

 

[MerryPrankster]

People who would argue that if saving Voyager requires saving the Borg than maybe that is too high a price to pay for survival.

Ooh...they might rather blow the ship up than have the Voyager help the Borg?

Hmm...maybe POD is that Harry Kim doesn't get that 8472 parasite gnawing on his face? That's a pretty visceral way to get people to realize that, Borg-killers or not, these aren't good people here.

 

[Ghost8472]

Make the story more like

Voyager Elite Force

Voyager finds the Forge but isnt able to destoy it.

Also let the Borg - Species 8472 war go on longer - just 2 episodes and a species that can destroy a DOZEN Borg Cubes with one ship is repelled??

 

[ColeMercury]

A big one would be to keep Ron Moore on the production team (and get rid of Braga). He had some great ideas for the show, but they clashed with Braga's ideas. With Moore, the show would have become more realistic, more gritty and more dirty.

I think you're mis-blaming here. For what it's worth, Braga wanted to do a season-long "Year of Hell" arc rather than just a two-parter. And need I point out that Moore & Braga were writing partners for years? Hell, they wrote two of the Next Gen movies together.

Besides, Braga was only the showrunner of Voyager in the fifth and sixth seasons. For the first season the showrunners were Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor; for the second, third and fourth seasons it was Jeri Taylor only; and for the seventh season the showrunner was Kenneth Biller.

Remember that Voyager was under a lot of pressure from UPN. It was the "flagship show" of the series, remember, while Deep Space Nine was always second-tier in importance -- and it was attached to the network rather than being in first-run syndication like The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine were. UPN wanted Voyager to replicate the success of The Next Generation -- and they did that by forcing Voyager to be as much like The Next Generation as possible, including the episodic format and lack of character growth. And the writers on Voyager accommodated that. (Deep Space Nine was able to branch out a lot more precisely because Voyager was getting all the attention from the execs.)

To make Voyager a better show, firstly you have to make another show the "flagship series" so that Voyager can branch out the way Deep Space Nine did in OTL. Unfortunately, that means that Deep Space Nine cannot coexist with a good Voyager: you need to replace it with something else (sorry, but DS9 isn't "flagship" material).

Personally, I think the best bet is Star Trek: Excelsior -- make Next Gen end after six seasons rather than seven, and have Excelsior begin in September 1993 (less than two years after the release of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country). Let Excelsior become the "flagship series" which UPN pins its hopes and dreams on, while Voyager becomes the second-tier show that's allowed to take more risks.

You know how shows are typically broadcast with their seasons split in two, with a long gap between shows that usually goes from mid-November to mid-January? Excelsior can begin on UPN in January 1995 with a big two-hour "event" show (think DS9's "The Way of the Warrior") that comes halfway through its second season. Voyager can then premiere a few days later.

Something else they could do is set up the story of the Maquis in the Next Generation movie, which should come out on schedule in mid-to-late 1994. Voyager can then follow on from the movie, in a way.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Remember that Voyager was under a lot of pressure from UPN. It was the "flagship show" of the series, remember, while Deep Space Nine was always second-tier in importance -- and it was attached to the network rather than being in first-run syndication like The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine were. UPN wanted Voyager to replicate the success of The Next Generation -- and they did that by forcing Voyager to be as much like The Next Generation as possible, including the episodic format and lack of character growth. And the writers on Voyager accommodated that. (Deep Space Nine was able to branch out a lot more precisely because Voyager was getting all the attention from the execs.)

I've heard it it explained a little differently,actually. Apparently, Paramount wanted Voyager to be a counterbalance to DS9. DS9 was dealing with serious, heavy subject matter, including genocide, terrorism, religion, prophecy and destiny, while prominently featuring images of the Federation at war, and exploring some of the war's effects on the characters, such as Nog being traumatized after losing his leg, Worf and Martok killing Gowron, and Sisko and Garak assasinating a Romulan senator and blaming it on the Dominion, all of which which actually makes it the most subtle and nuanced Trek series. They wanted Voyager to be a little bit lighter in order to avoid hitting somekind of event horizon of despair, but I agree withsome of the other comments in this discussion, I enjoyed Voyager, but I think that Voyager would have been much better served as a concept, if it had been cast as something more along the lines of Battlestar, or possibly Stargate Universe. I think it would have really shown the power of Star Trek's ideals if the crew is hellbent on returning to the Alpha Quadrant inspite of the fact that their ship is literally falling apart around them.

 

[The Spitfire017]

I think you're mis-blaming here. For what it's worth, Braga wanted to do a season-long "Year of Hell" arc rather than just a two-parter. And need I point out that Moore & Braga were writing partners for years? Hell, they wrote two of the Next Gen movies together.

Okay, I didn't know about the "Year of hell" arc, which I feel is one of the best Voyager episodes. But, from what I've seen in interviews and on sites like Memory Alpha, even though Moore & Braga did work together before, when Moore came on board Voyager, there were heated creative differences between the two, which resulted with Moore leaving the show. They eventually patched things up, but it took years.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Okay, I didn't know about the "Year of hell" arc, which I feel is one of the best Voyager episodes.

I've never heard that either, but Year of Hell easily could have lasted a season or two.

 

[Coalition]

The Malon could have been a nice example of where Voyager could have shown its utility.

You have a race that requires a dedicated waste disposal industry in order for its economy to function properly. Voyager has the technology to safely dispose of the wastes, and they offer it to the Malon Captain. The Captain turns it down because it would overturn their whole society, and more importantly, put him out of business.

Instead, the Malon Captain accepts the tech, and keeps it to himself. Voyager on the other hand travels through Malon space for a while, processing antimatter waste in exchange for resources. As a side effect, have the various quarters get filled up with resource containers. Weirdly painted 55 gallon drums, Unusual rectangular crates, etc. The Malon planetary governors ask Voyager about how they do it, and Voyager can provide technology that is the same cost to clean the antimatter residue. The Malon can then develop the tech on their own, or open the sealed containers Voyager left behind.

Voyager would also be trading their stellar knowledge in exchange for resources. How much would NASA be willing to pay for the sort of scans Voyager could provide about several stars in their path? Enough to provide food for ~200 people for a year? That is only 80,000 man-days worth of food, and at ~3 kg of food per person, that is only ~240 tons worth. A few kilotons of water would be just as cheap. Voyager can handle transporting the cargo up to their storage, and shoving the containers wherever there is room.

Kill off a main character or few, promote a main character or few, etc. Janeway should have been a science officer forced to become the Captain, rather than starting out that way. This would have forced her to take the reins of leadership even though Chakotay is better qualified due to their situation (Chakotay taught tactics, and had been living the scavenger life).

A minor item would be a small chart in Janeway's quarters or office, showing how close they are to Earth. This would have provided continuity between the episodes, so you could put them in order.

Or I could just link to sfdebris's reviews of Voyager, for people to read/watch and decide. Pity the site is down, so you'll have to go with his blip site.

 

[mattep74]

You know the species that replicated the entire ship and thought they were Voyager and they discovered it just as they were melting? How about making that scenario last longer and have them actually meet up with the real Voyager as they are melting and then have the Borg attack in such a way that the fake Voyager has to be sacrificied so that the real ones can survive.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Also let the Borg - Species 8472 war go on longer - just 2 episodes and a species that can destroy a DOZEN Borg Cubes with one ship is repelled??

They only took two losses of their own IIRC before they bolted. Even with the modified nanoprobe-missiles, the 8472 ships still had massive offensive power and could still devastate the Borg.

Maybe they're really casualty-averse for some reason.

 

[Shadowlord]

Ways to make Voyager better:

Don't make it TNG light! This has already been mentioned, but it deserves repeating. The vast majority of episodes feel like water-down TNG plots. While TNG is a great show, Voyager should've tried to find its own unique model, not copy something else.

Acknowledge the fact the Starfleet and Maquis crews had been enemies until being stranded in the Delta Quadrant. They focused on this point for a few episodes in the first season and then dropped it. Trust should come hard for the first couple seasons and the crews should warm up to each other gradually. There were many potential stories and conflicts that could've given Voyager a unique feel for a Star Trek show.

Establish story arcs. One of the great sucesses of DS9 was the Dominion War. The seeds for this conflict were laid at the end of the shows second season and built up to an all-out war that covered the shows final two seasons. Some of the best Star Trek stories ever came out of the Dominion War, like the seven episode arc with the Dominion occupying the station, showing half of the cast forced to deal with a military occupation, the other half fighting to reclaim the station and even gave the villains time in the spot light that they usually lack when we only see them making demands over the view screen. Voyager needed some really strong arcs. The original concept of the "Year of Hell" being a season long arc rather than a two-parter would be a great place to start.

Agree with the idea supplies should be limited. There should be limits to the stuff they can replicate. Even if replicator technology is powerful enough to make complex objects in the Star Trek universe, the replicators on a single ship like Voyager should be somewhat limited in what they can do.

Don't neuter the Borg! Voyager ruined the Borg by turning them into another villain of the week race that the crew could beat routinely. In TNG, a single Borg cube nearly conquered the entire Federation. Now Voyager, a single Federation ship cut off from any backup or support, is able to take out Borg ships left and right. I know its expected for the Borg to appear as the show is set in the Delta Quadrant and they should, but they should not be turned into the paper tiger they seemed by the show's end.

Better first villains than the Kazon. Seriously, a race that has the technology to make Starships, but water is a rare commodity? If they had starships, why not simply find a planet with lots of water? Considering how many planets seem capable of supporting life in Star Trek, including planets they visit in the first two seasons when they are still encountering the Kazon, this doesn't seem too hard. They really didn't think this one through.

No Neelex! He fails as a comedic relief character and the episodes that focus on him are almost always horrible.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Establish story arcs.

Agreed. The driving thrust of Voyager should have been the search for the Caretaker's companion.

One of the great sucesses of DS9 was the Dominion War. The seeds for this conflict were laid at the end of the shows second season and built up to an all-out war that covered the shows final two seasons.

Actually I don't think it was. In retrospect, the seeds of the Dominion War were laid in The Wounded when Picard realizes that Maxwell may be right and tells Gul Macet that the Federation will be watching Cardassian border activities closely from now on.

Some of the best Star Trek stories ever came out of the Dominion War...

I agree with this assesment though, DS9 has some of Trek's most brilliant stories, like Devil in the Moonlight.

 

[MattII]

IMO the Hirogen ought to have been the main (in the sense of the most encountered) villains, tough (but not too tough for Voyager to take down in sufficiently small numbers), nomadic (they will repeatedly encounter them across several seasons), and would hate Voyager for taking down the communications network. Voyager could also eventually pick up some technology from them that would allow them to get tougher.

 

[Shadowlord]

You know the species that replicated the entire ship and thought they were Voyager and they discovered it just as they were melting? How about making that scenario last longer and have them actually meet up with the real Voyager as they are melting and then have the Borg attack in such a way that the fake Voyager has to be sacrificied so that the real ones can survive.

Maybe that could've been an arc that last for a whole season. Not sure how well it would translate, but imagine if every episode in a season alternated between two different Voyager crews going through their own adventures with subtle clues revealing what's going on slowly being revealed until the two ships finally meet at the climax of the arc.

 

[voss749]

Seska

She pretended to be a bajoran and turned out to be a cardassian.

Instead of turning her into a cardboard cutout villain they should have kept her.

Her snarkiness and cynical humor would have made the show a lot more fun.
Let her keep Chakotays baby too. She could be in and out of the brig for part of the series. However even she could teach Feddies a bit about out of the box thinking and the necessity of using dirty tricks to save your lives.

I agree about the idea that Janeway should not have started out as captain at first. Science officer did make sense.

The Seven of nine was a good idea but even better would be her split in what path she take between Janeway and Seska and learning something from each.

One thing I would have added is perhaps a Ferengi among the maqui crew.

 

[OutsiderSubtype]

Just let them keep the original premise: a starship stranded 80 years from home without easily new supplies and repairs and a crew made out of two different factions that have to cooperate even though they used to be enemies. And thus avoid making it Star Trek TNG part 2 with a weaker cast and writers than the original.

QFT.

Also, too many of the characters were annoying and they ruined the Borg.

 

[hopper2cool]

Along with Year Of Hell season how about an Equinox season? Janeway finds out that there is another Federation ship out there. They look for it. They find the Equinox and things seems OK at first. But then we find out the Equinox has gone way out of the bounds of the Prime Directive. So Voyager has to find them, stop them, and make up (or at least deal with) various aliens disliking her for something that another Federation ship did.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Along with Year Of Hell season how about an Equinox season? Janeway finds out that there is another Federation ship out there. They look for it. They find the Equinox and things seems OK at first. But then we find out the Equinox has gone way out of the bounds of the Prime Directive. So Voyager has to find them, stop them, and make up (or at least deal with) various aliens disliking her for something that another Federation ship did.

How about spinning the episode with the alien con artists into a longer arc? Maybe not a whole season, but perhaps an arc consisting of 4 to 6 episodes? What a great idea that was. Unscrupulous con artists pretending to be Starfleet officers and ripping people off in the the process.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Maybe that could've been an arc that last for a whole season. Not sure how well it would translate, but imagine if every episode in a season alternated between two different Voyager crews going through their own adventures with subtle clues revealing what's going on slowly being revealed until the two ships finally meet at the climax of the arc.

I like that idea, but instead of the two Voyagers meeting at the end of the season, what if the replicated Voyager actually makes it back the Alpha Quadrant before being discovered.

 

[WCDouglas]

My post from the 1st "better Vovager" thread

A truly better Voyager would have been the original concept...

A young CDR Janeway (late twenties), well connected (originally she was to have a naval/Star Fleet family lineage going back to first astronauts) an aggrestive fast-runner/ liberty risk, think LCDR/LT Jim Kirk before getting ENTERPRISE (and the Spock/McCoy mentors), taking out her first true command.

An older LCDR Chakotay, (remember the development of Voyager begin before the Maquis story line began) Operations Officer (#3 in command), a seasoned, respected officer who has never gotten the chance (or break) to make command (a career number 2). He's been put on VOYAGER, like many key officers and specialists to ensure Janeway succeeds....and he resents that and her. XO (who's maintains the peace and makes the ship work) gets killed in the pilot and Chakotay's the XO, for a Captain, he resents, and does think is ready.

So, along with the "can they get home story line", and the crisis of the week, there's a background plot line, a tense command just on the point of erupting.... Which many of us (miliitary and business world) can relate to.

The other characters, with the exception of Paris, Kim, and the Doctor had slight differences, ones I remember from the discussion where, - Torres was a full blooded Klingon female on a exchange tour,
- the Jennier Lien character was human JO looking to fast advancement any way she could get it, and
- Seska was still a Cardassian spy, but altered to appear human...and slowly turning back do running out of the drugs to keep her human looking.

So lots of potential for multi-show plot lines....

Of course your POD for this is the studio accepting the idea of a young Captain, which apparrently while loving the female Captain part, they hated the twenty-something part, and wanted an older/mature Captain (read female Picard).... And Braga et. al. wanting to run the Marquis vs Starfleet storyline.