CH: Make TNG Darker

Killer300

Basically, I don't think this is possible because of marketing and such things, but I want to see how much can be changed culturally speaking.

With that in mind, make TNG a darker series, with all the factions being... very gray. How to do this? I don't know, that's for you to figure out, and me to enjoy.:p:)
 

THE OBSERVER

Don't know about TNG, but you can probably make DS9 darker than is. In the Expanded Universe novels, there are very dark elements, including one character violently raping and beating another.
 

commanderkai

Killer300 said:
Basically, I don't think this is possible because of marketing and such things, but I want to see how much can be changed culturally speaking.

With that in mind, make TNG a darker series, with all the factions being... very gray. How to do this? I don't know, that's for you to figure out, and me to enjoy.:p:)
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Remove Gene Roddenberry from having any influence on TNG other than approving the creation of it. That should neutralize the awful, awful first season of TNG that made the Federation come off as always having the moral high ground. Having Ron Moore being one of the leading writers should place it in DS9 territory, which I enjoyed.
 

THE OBSERVER

commanderkai said:
Remove Gene Roddenberry from having any influence on TNG other than approving the creation of it. That should neutralize the awful, awful first season of TNG that made the Federation come off as always having the moral high ground. Having Ron Moore being one of the leading writers should place it in DS9 territory, which I enjoyed.
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From the first season onward I suppose. He joined the writing staff in the 3rd season and wrote all the Klingon stories initally, then expanded.
 

elkarlo

Banned
Think it'd be easy to. Make the episodes continuous, and not stand aloners. That would force the arcs to go somewhere, and that'd prolly be some place dark. Like a war, or a insurrection. Instead of wars being hinted at, or certain places being occupied.
 

Antonio

Actually, much of the "mush" of the Federation in the first season was, if hearsay is correct, intended so from the beginning, as part of a long arc that would show that the Federation had become too complacent, and building from "Conspiracy" and "The Neutral Zone", to present the new Big Bad of the series, a hive-mind race which couldn't be reasoned with, and pretty much impossible to stop by force (yes, the concept eventually become the Borg), but Roddenberry fought with the creative people from TOS (Gerrold and Fontana) who were helping him to develop TNG.

A thread about this in the TrekBBS
 

Mike Stearns

Well, it wouldn't have made TNG darker persay, but I would have liked to see a more direct exploration of Wesley's apparent mental abilities, as hinted at by the Traveller.
 

Some Bloke

Oh god!

Seriously the dreaded Bog Boy (after his initials) could have been a decent character if they'd given it some serious thought other than boy genius.

Instead of appearing to be clever, he seemed to be a facilitator for the standard issue plot device (usually a phlobetinum powered thing he was going to use as a school project). In fact the only time we ever see him doing anything remotely clever is that episode with a BLT Ashley Judd, if he'd been more like this instead spouting technobabble to solve problems then maybe he wouldn't have been as justifiably loathed by the fan base. The only time we see him do anything morally dubious or praiseworthy is the episodewhere he got bawled out by Captain Picard.


Maybe write him out of the series to attend the academy on shedule, have the writers think out a bit of a retool (I like the way they kept him down a year to avoid the awful prospect of him becoming a series regular).

He reappears as a regular in series 6 starts as an arrogant show off, then something happens (maybe he's leading an away mission where his misjudgement gets someone killed) to take him down a peg or too.

tl;dr treat him as a character rather than a wish fulfilment thing/ jumped up plot device delivery system. An archetypal young officer would have been quite a fun character.
 

MattII

Maybe in one of the seasons the Romulans attempt to covertly disable the Outposts along the edge of the Neutral Zone (or use the fact that the Borg did so), and attempt to disable the Federation defences, leading to a prolonged conflict (maybe the backdrop of a whole season, or mentioned occasionally for several seasons) that sees both the beefing up of the ships, and the installation of marines/espatiers (parallel derivative of marine, but referring specifically to space, rather than to the sea) aboard most vessels.
 
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yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Mike Stearns said:
Well, it wouldn't have made TNG darker persay, but I would have liked to see a more direct exploration of Wesley's apparent mental abilities, as hinted at by the Traveller.
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Well anything to make Wesley an interesting character would be good. Now I just find him annoying and unnecessary. I think more thought should have been put into making all the characters interesting and give them more dept. Now only Picard, Worf and Data really had much character development.
 

Mike Stearns

Some Bloke said:
In fact the only time we ever see him doing anything remotely clever is that episode with a BLT Ashley Judd,
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What about Peak Performance, where he uses his science project to give the Hathaway limited warp capabilities.

Some Bloke said:
The only time we see him do anything morally dubious or praiseworthy is the episodewhere he got bawled out by Captain Picard.
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Which time? He got bawled out twice by Picard, the first time was in Datalore, where Picard acted like ass in front of the entire senior staff, when Wesley tried to tell him three times that his science officer had been replaced by an imposter, which Picard might like to know. The second time was in The First Duty, and he actually deserved it because he lied under oath to the Commandant of Starfleet Academy.
 

Polish Eagle

Killer300 said:
Basically, I don't think this is possible because of marketing and such things, but I want to see how much can be changed culturally speaking.

With that in mind, make TNG a darker series, with all the factions being... very gray. How to do this? I don't know, that's for you to figure out, and me to enjoy.:p:)
Click to expand...

Picard commits genocide against the Borg ("I, Borg"), even after learning that they can be 'de-assimilated.' He feels guilty about it after a while, and is increasingly unstable. He either resigns, or he begins using the Greater Good of the Federation as an excuse to deal with possible threats more brutally. Bad things happen as a result.
 

Mike Stearns

Polish Eagle said:
Picard commits genocide against the Borg ("I, Borg"), even after learning that they can be 'de-assimilated.' He feels guilty about it after a while, and is increasingly unstable. He either resigns, or he begins using the Greater Good of the Federation as an excuse to deal with possible threats more brutally. Bad things happen as a result.
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Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps he takes up Captain Maxwell's challenge in The Wounded and boards a Cardassian transport, causing a major interstellar incident in the process and eventually triggering a war.
 

Snake Featherston

Banned
Make the Borg into a serious threat with the Federation developing a faction that sees the Borg as an archetypal example of the menace posed by all aliens, and have it claim Colonel Green as a role model for bonus Fridge Horror. Bring up a Klingon version of Putin. Have the Romulans become a very clear mirror-darkly version of the Vulcans.
 

ColeMercury

Mike Stearns said:
Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps he takes up Captain Maxwell's challenge in The Wounded and boards a Cardassian transport, causing a major interstellar incident in the process and eventually triggering a war.
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Now, see, when Captain Archer did something politically equivalent to that in the Enterprise episode "The Andorian Incident", EVERYBODY was going on and on about how this showed what a horribly unprofessional and amateurish captain he was and repeatedly called him stupid and idiotic. But if Captain Picard does it it's suddenly OK? :rolleyes:
 

Shadowlord

Ways TNG Could've Been Darker:

Picard dies at the end of "Best of Both Worlds" instead of being rescued. I think Stewart's contract was up for renewal at the end of the 3rd season, so it is feasible this might've happened.

Have overreaching arcs with regular villains like DS9 did with the Dominion. The Romulans or Cardassians would've been good possibilities for this.

Instead of being killed by the Romulans while trying to escape, have the Tasha Yar who went back in time in "Yesterday's Enterprise" be alive and still a prisoner of the Romulans. Lots of dark subject matter that could potentially be brought up with the rape and torture she endured and Picard feeling responsible for having sent her back in time and having to suffer it in the first place. Sela could make it even darker by still being dedicated to the Romulans and thinking her mother deserved what happened. Probably should have a different actress than Denise Crosby play Sela in this scenario though.

In "Second Chances" instead of having both Rikers be equally real have the one who was stranded for years be the actual Riker and the Riker who'd been on the ship the whole time be a duplicate.

Take the plot of "The Pegasus" further into a major arc. Have us see the fallout of Riker's court marshall. Also, have it revealed that the Admiral after the cloaking device was really following secret orders from Starfleet command and tensions increase with the Romulans, leading to war. Picard and his crew have to deal with the fact the Federation is corrupt and fight a bitter war at the same time.
 

Tyr

ColeMercury said:
Now, see, when Captain Archer did something politically equivalent to that in the Enterprise episode "The Andorian Incident", EVERYBODY was going on and on about how this showed what a horribly unprofessional and amateurish captain he was and repeatedly called him stupid and idiotic. But if Captain Picard does it it's suddenly OK? :rolleyes:
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Knd of like real life really though. If Americans pull such shit they get away with it as nobody would mess with them, another nation tries it though...
 
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