CH: Biggest Religion Has No Gods

[Killer300]

Your challenge is to make a religion that has no gods become the largest in the world.

Keep in mind, there's a difference between not believing in Gods, and not believing in supernatural stuff. I want the latter, a religion without gods.

Now, people who knows tons about ridiculously early religious history, begin!

 

[Plumber]

Buddhism a-go-go.

 

[Enigmajones]

Daoism possibly? And Buddha, but Buddhism is directly tied to Gods of Hindu origin, which almost discounts it in a way.

 

[Mongo]

Daoism possibly? And Buddha, but Buddhism is directly tied to Gods of Hindu origin, which almost discounts it in a way.

Wasn't the original form of Buddhism atheist? I thought that the acceptance of gods as real, crept in later under the influence of the areas where Buddhism had spread.

 

[Plumber]

Wasn't the original form of Buddhism atheist? I thought that the acceptance of gods as real, crept in later under the influence of the areas where Buddhism had spread.

Yep. Maybe if the Parable of the Arrow was held to more strongly somehow?

 

[strummist]

Cynicism, with Diogenes as the Prophet.

 

[Enigmajones]

Wasn't the original form of Buddhism atheist? I thought that the acceptance of gods as real, crept in later under the influence of the areas where Buddhism had spread.

Well Im no expert on Buddhist mythology, but from what I remember, the origin of Buddha involves many stories of gods and goddesses attempting to turn Buddha away from his path to enlightenment.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Well Im no expert on Buddhist mythology, but from what I remember, the origin of Buddha involves many stories of gods and goddesses attempting to turn Buddha away from his path to enlightenment.

Actually, he may have been HELPED by Indra, if I am to believe some works like Tesuka's Buddha...

 

[Falecius]

If Buddhism somehow manages to install as majority religion in both India and (as a consequence maybe) in China (put, SE Asia, a significant lot in Japan and Korea, and some other areas nearby as per OTL or more), without becoming a somehow theistic religion in the process (which I guess is the hardest part) you've pretty much done.

 

[SilverPhantom2]

Your challenge is to make a religion that has no gods become the largest in the world.

Keep in mind, there's a difference between not believing in Gods, and not believing in supernatural stuff. I want the latter, a religion without gods.

Now, people who knows tons about ridiculously early religious history, begin!

I have to ask this: what do you mean by "gods"? The definition changes from East to West.

Buddhist mythology does include fantastical stories of the gods encouraging Siddhartha to reach enlightenment while Mara tempts him away from enlightenment. However, the gods of Buddhist mythology aren't omnipotent beings. They're in the wheel of Samsara as much as human beings, ghosts, and animals. So for the Buddha to achieve liberation means the gods also have a chance to achieve it as well. Though the Sanskrit term "Devas" is typically translated as "Gods," it's probably more synonymous with "Angels."

As a student of mythology and religion, I think it's important to remember that we shouldn't assume that when Mahavira outlines a path where Man can become God, he's not referring to an all-powerful, all-knowing, morally-optional being.

So in that sense, if you mean a religion without an Abrahamic deity, or anything that can be confused as such, then Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, or Jainism can qualify.

 

[Killer300]

Seems what's needed is simply Bhuddism to get more popular. Interesting, to say the least.

 

[Killer300]

I have to ask this: what do you mean by "gods"? The definition changes from East to West.

Buddhist mythology does include fantastical stories of the gods encouraging Siddhartha to reach enlightenment while Mara tempts him away from enlightenment. However, the gods of Buddhist mythology aren't omnipotent beings. They're in the wheel of Samsara as much as human beings, ghosts, and animals. So for the Buddha to achieve liberation means the gods also have a chance to achieve it as well. Though the Sanskrit term "Devas" is typically translated as "Gods," it's probably more synonymous with "Angels."

As a student of mythology and religion, I think it's important to remember that we shouldn't assume that when Mahavira outlines a path where Man can become God, he's not referring to an all-powerful, all-knowing, morally-optional being.

So in that sense, if you mean a religion without an Abrahamic deity, or anything that can be confused as such, then Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, or Jainism can qualify.

Well, for the sake of simplicity, and just for now, lets go with a God that isn't omnipotent, omnipresent, and so forth.

However, I'd have to say, those gods sound more like Angels, or just generic supernatural deities than, "gods," to say the least.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Well, for the sake of simplicity, and just for now, lets go with a God that isn't omnipotent, omnipresent, and so forth.

However, I'd have to say, those gods sound more like Angels, or just generic supernatural deities than, "gods," to say the least.

Gods as pagans of europe seen it. Or many hinduist minor deities like the vedic core.
Not surprising as they are all VERY distantly related, but still... from India to Spain....

 

[Mongo]

This is common with the Dharmic religions in general. Almost all the Hindu gods are just as mortal as humans. The only exception is whichever god is considered the ultimate Creator in that particular denomination, all other gods are created beings and will die when the current universe comes to an end.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

This is common with the Dharmic religions in general. Almost all the Hindu gods are just as mortal as humans. The only exception is whichever god is considered the ultimate Creator in that particular denomination, all other gods are created beings and will die when the current universe comes to an end.

Depend, they are not even of this model frequently, but a sort of Pantheism(?), where the God IS the Universe, not have created it. Brahman and Atman, Anatman of Buddhism (a sort of mirror reflection but who work similarly)...

 

[thekingsguard]

Shinto-style ancestor worship perhaps?

 

[democracy101]

Buddhism could theoretically work, but the main issue is that it is currently split between the Mahayana and Theravada branches. Most of the individuals who believe in the former believe that Buddha himself is a "god," while the latter tends to view him as a human being who achieved enlightenment. There are exceptions, however, as my sect does not acknowledge Siddhartha Gautama as a "god," even though it is technically derived from another Mahayana sect. There are also other various "human beings" and "gods," depending on the sect involved, but Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, and it managed to syncretize with other various beliefs, such as animism.

In order to make the proposed scenario work, you would probably need to focus more on the "enlightenment" part, such as what occurred in the Theraveda branch in Southeast Asia, or more philosophical ones in the Mahayana branch, such as Chan/Seon/Zen. However, the biggest issue with this is that it requires individuals to sever ties to society, along with seclusion to a certain extent, which is extremely undesirable for the government. This was one of the reasons why the Tang persecuted Buddhists, as it viewed them as corrupt monks who earned money without paying taxes, while the Mahayana branch later allowed laymen to comprehend most of the core tenets.

 

[strummist]

I'm quite serious about a religion based upon cynicism - the followers believing the purpose of life is to live virtuously in agreement with nature, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, sex and fame, and living a simple life free from all possessions - teaching that the world belongs equally to everyone, and that suffering is caused by false judgements of what is valuable and by the worthless customs and conventions which surround society.

Mix up Diogenes with Socrates, and I can imagine a group of militant atheists going around telling everyone they don't know anything.

A sort of Western Buddhism, I suppose.

 

[Vingilótë]

What are we defining as Gods here? Because on the one hand, you might say Deism qualifies as a general benchmark, but on the other hand, Japanese "atheist-shintoism" might work for a stricter definition (my understanding is that the vast majority of Japanese consider themselves irreligious, but virtually everyone participates in Shinto/Buddhist religious festivals and practices, down to birth recordings and funerals and stuff).

 

[democracy101]

I'm quite serious about a religion based upon cynicism - the followers believing the purpose of life is to live virtuously in agreement with nature, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, sex and fame, and living a simple life free from all possessions - teaching that the world belongs equally to everyone, and that suffering is caused by false judgements of what is valuable and by the worthless customs and conventions which surround society.

Mix up Diogenes with Socrates, and I can imagine a group of militant atheists going around telling everyone they don't know anything.

A sort of Western Buddhism, I suppose.

Although this may gain converts for a while, it would probably come nowhere close to becoming the biggest one.

Any state would almost certainly persecute this group, as it would probably not be loyal to the government. There would also be fears of a potential revolution eventually dissolving into anarchy, as this new state would not have a coherent structure, due to its basis on vague concepts concerning our viewpoints of nature, rather than concrete ones used by a few in order to rule over the masses. Also, if people had to pick between a religion promising eternal happiness in a heaven with material rewards, and another one based on complex philosophical arguments reducing the soul to "nothingness," then I'm pretty sure that they would choose the former.

In other words, people generally want tangible promises, and understand concepts better through actual stories instead of vague analogies, which is one of the reasons why Mahayana Buddhism became popular throughout East Asia. This also applies to the Abrahamic religions, as people can understand semi-historical events utilized in order to teach certain morals better than analogies attempting to portray what the "soul" actually is, not to mention achieving nirvana. Syncretism could combine both elements, as occurred in some regions, but it would probably result in a "god" or "gods" as well, as it is much easier to imagine (an) omnipotent being(s) controlling everything, rather than imagining "nature" or "natural events," along with how we view them, causing events to occur.