CH: An Anti-Great Awakening

[Killer300]

Basically, make the US less religious, by a lot. Do something that stops, if not reverses, the impact of the, "Great Awakenings," in U.S. history, hence the title.

Is this possible? Or is the US, with a 1776 POD, doomed to become a heavily religious state because of its origins in religious, "freedom," at points?

(I put this in quotes because I'd argue the US was always dominated by Protestantism, with even Catholicism never being as tolerated until recently.)

 

[eliphas8]

You really need to make protestants feel like they aren't under threat from the catholics and other immigrant groups. if people feel their beliefs are threatened they tend to become more extreme than if they feel comfortable about it.

 

[Timmy811]

You can't get rid of the 2nd great awakening unless you get rid of freedom of religion as well. So you need a POD before 1776

 

[The Ubbergeek]

First, it's important to remember that many of you guys's Founding Fathers where actually at best lukewarm, liberal and not very practicing christians. A lot where Deists, and maybe some frank Agnostics and Atheists.

You have maybe the base of a POD there... what if,. starting earlier, Britain took a radical religious path, who frankly can be called fanatical-harsh? By opposition, then, the colonial folks... along perhaps influences from french Lumières peoples, trickling down, maybe..

 

[Socrates]

If you prevent disestablishment, I imagine religion will lose a lot of its shine when its associated with the government.

 

[Anaxagoras]

First, it's important to remember that many of you guys's Founding Fathers where actually at best lukewarm, liberal and not very practicing christians. A lot where Deists, and maybe some frank Agnostics and Atheists.

A great many were Deists (Jefferson, Franklin, and probably Washington among them), but I don't recall any that I would describe as Agnostics or Atheists.

 

[Killer300]

You can't get rid of the 2nd great awakening unless you get rid of freedom of religion as well. So you need a POD before 1776

Except wasn't there not really de-facto freedom of religion from the domination of Protestantism?

Because if there was true freedom of religion, catholics, as an example, I don't think would've been treated as harshly.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

A great many were Deists (Jefferson, Franklin, and probably Washington among them), but I don't recall any that I would describe as Agnostics or Atheists.

there was debating, according to researches in the writtings of somes like Jefferson perhaps (author of his expurged naturalist Bible) that they may not really 'have believed those those stuff'.

 

[Killer300]

Interesting, perhaps the founding fathers do more to influence the nation religiously, i.e., reduce its religious beliefs?

 

[Daztur]

If you prevent disestablishment, I imagine religion will lose a lot of its shine when its associated with the government.

This. Keeping religion associated with governments as long as possible will help as it keeps the US being as much of a natural place for small European sects to move to.

 

[Killer300]

This. Keeping religion associated with governments as long as possible will help as it keeps the US being as much of a natural place for small European sects to move to.

Okay, have fun butterflying the First Amendment, among other things.

 

[Emperor Constantine]

Keeping religion associated how? Like a stage religion or like state protected? I really don't get that part.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

This. Keeping religion associated with governments as long as possible will help as it keeps the US being as much of a natural place for small European sects to move to.

It's kinda why Europe is quite less religious - and religious themed wars. To a point at least.

Keeping religion associated how? Like a stage religion or like state protected? I really don't get that part.

You kinda answered your own question with some ideas indeed.

 

[Mr.J]

First, it's important to remember that many of you guys's Founding Fathers where actually at best lukewarm, liberal and not very practicing christians. A lot where Deists, and maybe some frank Agnostics and Atheists.

Exactly, the period around 1790 was a low ebb of US religiosity: I remember reading that only 10% of white Americans were regular church-goers at the time. Then the Second Great Awakening happened. The question is why that happened, and what would've prevented it - honestly I don't know, the period is not my area of expertise.

 

[Killer300]

Well then, who does?

 

[eliphas8]

Well then, who does?

From what I was taught in history class (so take it with a grain of salt the size of an elephants testicle) the safe protestant majority was scared by the very fast growth of the countries catholic population and the ensuing conflict led to an upsing in the religious feeling in the Protestant population.

 

[Killer300]

From what I was taught in history class (so take it with a grain of salt the size of an elephants testicle) the safe protestant majority was scared by the very fast growth of the countries catholic population and the ensuing conflict led to an upsing in the religious feeling in the Protestant population.

Is there something that could do the obvious, make Protestants feel the need to distance themselves from their religion?

 

[NKVD]

Preventing disestablishment at the state level makes sense. After all, some of the most secular countries on Earth still have established churches (Norway, Iceland, Denmark).

 

[eliphas8]

Is there something that could do the obvious, make Protestants feel the need to distance themselves from their religion?

Again its not so much feeling a need to distance themselves as it is a need for them to not feel a need to hold it so tightly, also you may want to reduce the reliance settlers on the west had on religious events as a source of community. But yeah do those two things and they'll probably continue through a rather awkward decline in active church going and interest in it.

 

[Thespitron 6000]

Preventing disestablishment at the state level makes sense. After all, some of the most secular countries on Earth still have established churches (Norway, Iceland, Denmark).

The problem with that is that many of the Founders (notably Patrick Henry) were staunchly opposed to established churches such as the Church of England. Henry, of "give me liberty or give me death" fame, originally made a name for himself with his attacks on the monopoly of the Church of England in Virginia.