Yes, but its not just adoption, its adoption with the authority of the Pope. While that's not perfect, it prevents most of the outrage.
Actually,it most likely will.There are probably plenty of nobles in Savoy who will probably fight to kick Cesare out.Cesare will need to cull the remaining members of the House of Savoy and clean the house before he can secure Savoy.The who adoption business and the papal authorization is only there to give Cesare a thinly disguised veil of legitimacy.Ultimately,the power of the law is not on his side.As mentioned before,Savoy's an imperial fief and there's plenty of collateral branches of the House of Savoy.The Savoyards sure ain't gonna just accept this.You will also need to bargain with the emperor as to why he should accept this.
 
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Actually,it most likely will.There are probably plenty of nobles in Savoy who will probably fight to kick Cesare out.Cesare will need to cull the remaining members of the House of Savoy and clean the house before he can secure Savoy.The who adoption business and the papal authorization is only there to give Cesare a thinly disguised veil of legitimacy.Ultimately,the power of the law is not on his side.As mentioned before,Savoy's an imperial fief and there's plenty of collateral branches of the House of Savoy.The Savoyards sure ain't gonna just accept this.You will also need to bargain with the emperor as to why he should accept this.

Well, there were 3 years between first and second campaigns, so we could use that time to eliminate enemy hostile nobles, and give the Purple Company some experience fighting wealthy lords.
 
Basically, there's a medieval mod for Total War Attila called 'Medieval Kingdoms 1212AD' and I just used the best units in that game 'late era' to show off these battles! And since my PC is so beefy it makes it easy to crack the settings up to max and show it off. Hoping this can add enough flavour to this thread to make it unique!
Cool! Im waiting for Terminus to come out.
I've seen like, one, two threads use in game footage? This is definitely flavor.
 
Cool! Im waiting for Terminus to come out.
I've seen like, one, two threads use in game footage? This is definitely flavor.

I just had the idea as I really wanted to go all out with this! I've practiced doing camerawork in Attila before, and actually enjoy doing the camera work and everything. It's so fun! Sadly I cannot do anything till tomorrow night as I'm at a relatives with only my iPad.
 
Well, most people, even if they are negative on the historical side, they do usually care about their family. I thought that maybe not everyone had to have a negative perception. Plus it gives more character to Cesare to have him like this.
Yea it was good characterisation, I was just thinking how lots of the Italian historians didn't like him because he was a Spaniard, but how he's also known for patronising orphanages and various arts.

As a side note, I went to Rome last summer and our tour guide going round the Borgia apartments was saying lots of the women in the paintings had blonde hair because Lucretzia did and Rodrigo mandated that they be pained like that.
 
Yea it was good characterisation, I was just thinking how lots of the Italian historians didn't like him because he was a Spaniard, but how he's also known for patronising orphanages and various arts.

As a side note, I went to Rome last summer and our tour guide going round the Borgia apartments was saying lots of the women in the paintings had blonde hair because Lucretzia did and Rodrigo mandated that they be pained like that.
Well, a man who patronising orphanages definitely cares about his son, especially if he's as successful as Cesare. Spaniards are known for being passionate, how can that not be for his heir?
 
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Seems pretty good, I have to wonder what the Venetians will think of all this, however. The Venetians at this time, frustrated in the East, were trying to develop their land possessions in northern Italy. Particularly the Romagna.

The Pope will not like people taking too much power in Italy, particularly in this TL where he wants his son even more so to be a great conqueror.

The Pope will switch between focusing blame on HRE, Venice, and France, as they all want a slice of the Italian pie that Cesare craves too as well.

You should also consider the ripple effects outside of the Italian Peninsula. How does this affect England? Spain? Poland? Is technology suffering or improving?

I like the TL a lot, don't get me wrong. Just trying to point out some things I can think of that might make it better. When you make a TL, you go with an idea of how in-depth you want it. So far it has been pretty impressive in depth, in contrast to my current project. :p
However, when you post to this depth, you have to keep it up. I trust you can however.
 
Seems pretty good, I have to wonder what the Venetians will think of all this, however. The Venetians at this time, frustrated in the East, were trying to develop their land possessions in northern Italy. Particularly the Romagna.
Fuck em!
I just had the idea as I really wanted to go all out with this! I've practiced doing camerawork in Attila before, and actually enjoy doing the camera work and everything. It's so fun! Sadly I cannot do anything till tomorrow night as I'm at a relatives with only my iPad.
iPads are cool, you get to play the first Rome total war and Im having a blast playing that. I'll stop now because tis isn't related to the thread.
 
Seems pretty good, I have to wonder what the Venetians will think of all this, however. The Venetians at this time, frustrated in the East, were trying to develop their land possessions in northern Italy. Particularly the Romagna.

The Pope will not like people taking too much power in Italy, particularly in this TL where he wants his son even more so to be a great conqueror.

The Pope will switch between focusing blame on HRE, Venice, and France, as they all want a slice of the Italian pie that Cesare craves too as well.

You should also consider the ripple effects outside of the Italian Peninsula. How does this affect England? Spain? Poland? Is technology suffering or improving?

I like the TL a lot, don't get me wrong. Just trying to point out some things I can think of that might make it better. When you make a TL, you go with an idea of how in-depth you want it. So far it has been pretty impressive in depth, in contrast to my current project. :p
However, when you post to this depth, you have to keep it up. I trust you can however.

Venice will to become centre stage to the anti-Borgian forces for several reasons don't worry. The reason I haven't talked about other areas is that the chaos is located only in the Po valley so far, this won't affect England's mess. War of the roses is over in the same way, with Henry VII. Spain has watched with serious suspicion but hasn't found an excuse to do something about it, focusing on colonising the new world currently, Poland will become very influential if I keep with the timeline I was going with, and technology will be improved with Cesare using a very advanced military doctrine and advanced army compositions.

Fuck em!

iPads are cool, you get to play the first Rome total war and Im having a blast playing that. I'll stop now because tis isn't related to the thread.

Don't worry about it. I just wanted this thread to stand out and I just had that idea! Although I fear limited use due to the time period of the mod. Ah well, great right now!
 
I'm surprised that after 90 posts no one has dared to make an Assassin's Creed reference. Well that's about to change now.

upload_2017-2-20_4-44-17.png


In all seriousness though you've got a pretty unique and original timeline. Rennasaince Italy is not my forte but your chapters do a good job with the Propaganda History of Cesare the Great and the more narrative scenes of him basking in his acihevements or getting stuff done. Really looking forward to whether or not Cesare can actually make a Nova Roma with himself as Cesare Cesar. Vive la Borgias!
 
I'm surprised that after 90 posts no one has dared to make an Assassin's Creed reference. Well that's about to change now.

View attachment 308945

In all seriousness though you've got a pretty unique and original timeline. Rennasaince Italy is not my forte but your chapters do a good job with the Propaganda History of Cesare the Great and the more narrative scenes of him basking in his acihevements or getting stuff done. Really looking forward to whether or not Cesare can actually make a Nova Roma with himself as Cesare Cesar. Vive la Borgias!
I gotta be honest; I was looking for pictures of Cesare for the timeline, then I stumbled on to assassins creed, and was like 'YES I have a reference I can use from pop culture to tell people about my timeline' XD
In all seriousness, Cesare is gonna try his god damn hardest for this to work, and it's about to get western Roman Empire Attila legendary level hard.
Just trying to figure out a title for him. Anyone have any ideas tell me below!
And thanks Kaiser! :extremelyhappy: I hope to thrill renaissance lovers, regular folk and pin pricking historians with this timeline with game screenshots, propaganda and epic quotes!

Glory to House Borgia-Palaiologos!
 
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@Joshuapooleanox Holy Roman Emperor will make Austria and most of the Empire mad. Most Christian Sovereign will make Spain angry. Basileus, Autokrator and other eastern titles are too eastern.

You could try imperator et augustus, like Charlemagne had. I do not think HRE holds those titles.
Emperor of the West?
Or instead of Cesare Borgia... people could call him Caesar Borgia. :p

Since he has complete Papal support he could get an imperial coronation, receive "Defender of the Faith," and other benefits to add to his title. You could also just list out his individual titles in each of his realms a la Austria...

EDIT- King of Italy seems rather obvious. I do not know why I omitted it.
 
@Joshuapooleanox Holy Roman Emperor will make Austria and most of the Empire mad. Most Christian Sovereign will make Spain angry. Basileus, Autokrator and other eastern titles are too eastern.

You could try imperator et augustus, like Charlemagne had. I do not think HRE holds those titles.
Emperor of the West?
Or instead of Cesare Borgia... people could call him Caesar Borgia. :p

Since he has complete Papal support he could get an imperial coronation, receive "Defender of the Faith," and other benefits to add to his title. You could also just list out his individual titles in each of his realms a la Austria...

(SPOILERS)

Byzantine Borgia?

Emperor of Italy would anger Austria, well wait. Maybe it won't. If my plans are correct and Austria recognised Italian independence then they could be forced to give up the Italian part of the title!

Genius! So he could be a emperor?
 
@Joshuapooleanox The problem with Emperor is it implies that he is more important than the other monarchs. No one is gonna put up with that.

Even if Austria lets Italy go, they will not like that there is a southern empire in opposition to their "Holy Roman Empire."
They will see it as a claim to dominance and challenge it. Now idk, maybe Cesare will be strong enough to do whatever he wants to the HRE, but if he cannot, I do not reccomend that title.

The other monarchs will not care as much, but they still will not be happy.
 
@Joshuapooleanox The problem with Emperor is it implies that he is more important than the other monarchs. No one is gonna put up with that.

Even if Austria lets Italy go, they will not like that there is a southern empire in opposition to their "Holy Roman Empire."
They will see it as a claim to dominance and challenge it. Now idk, maybe Cesare will be strong enough to do whatever he wants to the HRE, but if he cannot, I do not reccomend that title.

The other monarchs will not care as much, but they still will not be happy.
I'm just saying ideas. I don't really know. If anyone else can come up with ideas for loopholes that'd be great! I just don't want Cesare's title to be a long string of duchies. King would be great too, it doesn't have to be emperor Jesus of the world. :extremelyhappy:
 
If you want to play up the connection to Ancient Rome while downplaying the one to "modern" HRE you can go for restitutor, The Restorer. Emphasize the Italian and Roman-ness of his Empire and there you go. Hail him as a new Augustus or something.
If he does really well people can say "Felicior Augusto, melior Traiano."
 
If you want to play up the connection to Ancient Rome while downplaying the one to "modern" HRE you can go for restitutor, The Restorer. Emphasize the Italian and Roman-ness of his Empire and there you go. Hail him as a new Augustus or something.
If he does really well people can say "Felicior Augusto, melior Traiano."
Like simon bolivior and el liberatador? Sounds great!
 
The problem with Emperor is it implies that he is more important than the other monarchs. No one is gonna put up with that.
Around this time that's not actually true, for example, the Kings of Spain and France never saw themselves as lesser than the Emperor, its more a modern need to have the feudal system make sense
 
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