Centrals win WW1 - Affects on Zionism

Shalom salam peace to everyone.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the continued evolution and progression of Zionism and the Zionist movement - as well as Palestine and the Mid-East in general and Jews all-over the world - in the case that the Central Powers (Germany in particular) manage to secure a favorable armistice at the conclusion of the First World War.

To put the "Centrals Win WW1" matter aside, let's just go with the usual case of "the Americans don't join the war" POD. Wether the German spring offensive is more succesful or not, the Entente forces realize the hopelesness (sorry, couldn't find a milder word) of their situation and armistice negotiations commence. The armistice is not as unfair (towards the French) as it was to the Germans in OTL, and does not result in Germany controlling all of Europe and all of Africa.

Now, some points to discuss:
  • Palestine and the Middle-East between the Brits and Ottomans.
  • Balfour Statement promising Palestine to the Jews already signed.
  • Less hostility and tension in Europe, less Jews emigrating (Russian shit still goin' down in Ukraine and other Jewish concentrations).
  • Germany and Austria-Hungary still world powers, their prespective on the matter.
  • Perhaps the radical chauvenistic types of nationalism never gain so much power anywhere in the world, affecting all national movements.
  • Sykes-Picco agreement: is Syria still given to France, or perhaps in TTL it is given back to the Turks or even Germans instead?
  • Where does the world go to in-general (burrow from other discussions): how does this affect the situation with the Zionists?
 
The Balfour Declaration may well be butterflied away, as it was signed several months after the US entered the war. The Sykes-Picot agreement is almost certainly gone, and the Ottomans will probably keep their possessions in the Levant a while longer. The Ottoman Empire will eventually break up though, perhaps resulting in chaos- could Zionists take the opportunity? Or will the area end up under an Arab ruler, or several?
 

Neroon

Banned
With the German Jews beeing seen as just having proven their loyalty instead of being scapegoated for the defeat, might Germany be buying Palestine from the Ottomans (assuming the Empire is still having big problems even after a victory they might need cash and be willing to part with it) and set up a federal Kingdom of Isreal (basically Bavaria-level autonomy) as a reward?
 
With the German Jews beeing seen as just having proven their loyalty instead of being scapegoated for the defeat, might Germany be buying Palestine from the Ottomans (assuming the Empire is still having big problems even after a victory they might need cash and be willing to part with it) and set up a federal Kingdom of Isreal (basically Bavaria-level autonomy) as a reward?
Hardly. Germany, even without having to pay war indemnities, would have too big economic problems, at least in the near future, to buy Palestine, even if the Ottomans were willing to sell it... and when Germany has recovered, well, there's a very good chance that the Ottomans will either have recovered, or, possibly, lost control of the area. That is to say, they will either not be interested in selling anymore, or unable to sell it.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Hardly. Germany, even without having to pay war indemnities, would have too big economic problems, at least in the near future, to buy Palestine, even if the Ottomans were willing to sell it... and when Germany has recovered, well, there's a very good chance that the Ottomans will either have recovered, or, possibly, lost control of the area. That is to say, they will either not be interested in selling anymore, or unable to sell it.

Beside that, if the Jews is seen as good little Germans why send them to some godforsaken desert in the Middle East?
 
I think we're all missing the fact that without the holocaust, most of the Jewish population of Germany wouldn't WANT to be in a separate state. They were Germans, that is what they considered themselves.
 
I think we're all missing the fact that without the holocaust, most of the Jewish population of Germany wouldn't WANT to be in a separate state. They were Germans, that is what they considered themselves.

Not only Germany, but nearly all of Europe. Even when Poland passed anti-semitic laws in the late 20s and in the 30s, the majority of its Jewish population remained rather loyal. My grandparents, whom I would hardly define as stupid or weak-minded, both saw themselves as Polish citizens (and Poles, as a matter of fact), despite their Judaism, until the holocaust.

However, one must keep in mind that the Jewish imigration to Israel does not stop completely. The Jewish clusters in the Ukraine were already fed-up with the Tsarist/Bolshevist/Pissed-off-Ukrainian-peasant-ist bullshit - and would soon start the massive "Third Aliya" to Palestine.
With Germany not giving-up it's influence, military force, power, and Eastern-European client states, we can expect to see a longer, bloodier Russian Civil War that would have many more thousands of Jews looking for a new home.
 
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