Central Powers win War, Germany goes communist

Kaiser Wilhelm II was known to have been against capitalism and Imperialism, common traits among communists. If the Central powers had won the war, what are the chances of Germany going communist.

Or a second thought, instead of a Russian Revolution in WW1, how about a German revolution of the same variety.
 
Kaiser Wilhelm II was known to have been against capitalism and Imperialism, common traits among communists. If the Central powers had won the war, what are the chances of Germany going communist.

Or a second thought, instead of a Russian Revolution in WW1, how about a German revolution of the same variety.

*facepalm*

He who wants a "place under the sun" against Imperialism?! Were have you been getting that from?! :confused:
Is that the same Emperor Wilhelm II we're talking about there?

If there's any chance of Germany going communist in a post-WWI CP victory scenario, it'd involve the Emperor getting overthrown... :rolleyes:
 
Irony levels reaching critical mass...

Kaiser Bill: I'm not in favor of ruling Germany; I think the German day laborers should lead it instead.

I've got to admit, the OP's Name throws me on this one, big time...
 
Irony levels reaching critical mass...

Kaiser Bill: I'm not in favor of ruling Germany; I think the German day laborers should lead it instead.

I've got to admit, the OP's Name throws me on this one, big time...

Especially given that the name is grammatically wrong (it should be "der Kaiser" ;) )... :rolleyes:
 
Oh, hell, Communists are the biggest imperialists around anyway.
I'm sorry, but it was good old capitalist Britain, France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands that carved up the entire global south into empires.

Back on topic: the only way Germany goes communist is without the Kaiser. Still, the post-war German revolution was bound to happen whether the Central Powers won or lost. Whether it succeeds is another matter entirely.
 

mowque

Banned
Winners rarely fall into revolt and rebellion. Winning would merely have stabilized the Kasier.
 
Winners rarely fall into revolt and rebellion. Winning would merely have stabilized the Kasier.
A whole lot of unemployed former soldiers tends to make revolts happen. With the climate in Germany at the time, and the high penetration of militant organized labor and militant socialist political groups, Germany was ripe for revolution, win or lose.
 
Germany beat down the communist revolution when it happened in OTL in 1919 and they had lost. If they win I could see a lot of unrest like in France and Britain IOTL but not a full fledged revolution, never mind a sucessful one.
 

Xen

Banned
A whole lot of unemployed former soldiers tends to make revolts happen. With the climate in Germany at the time, and the high penetration of militant organized labor and militant socialist political groups, Germany was ripe for revolution, win or lose.

There won't be a whole lot of unemployed former soldiers. They'd still be employed in the military, I can definately see some occupation duties in the Balkans, Alsace-Lorraine, the lowlands, and Eastern Europe, plus Germany will likely demand some sort of war reparations from the allies.

France is far more likely to go red in this situation that Germany.
 
By 1918, the old order was dead as a Dodo and the old elites had lost all credit. Victory or defeat, there would be a turn over anyway.
In a CP victorious scenario the old order most probably would not bind in the socialists, thus the socialists are likely to join the communists (Spartacus) when it comes to the inevitable showdown.
German communism would, however, not be as bloody as Bolshevism. The OTL 1918/19 revolution was remarkably unbloody.
 
One important reason for the attempted Red takeover was the collapse in living standards, including starvation brought about by the allied blockade. That is not something a victorious Germany would have to be concerned about ... at least not the same extent.

And in Germany, as we know from our own timeline, anti-establishment populism was as likely to be far right than far left.
 
Kaiser Wilhelm II was known to have been against capitalism and Imperialism, common traits among communists. If the Central powers had won the war, what are the chances of Germany going communist.

Or a second thought, instead of a Russian Revolution in WW1, how about a German revolution of the same variety.

I don't know about Kaiser Wilhelm's stance towards capitalist, but there needs to be a slight clarification on his stance towards imperialism. The German Reich was not imperialist in the traditional stance; ie, gobbling up chunks of Africa and Asia just so they can paint as much gray as possible on their maps. They wanted influence in Europe; a primarily European empire. They would much rather control the Baltics, Poland, etc, than a chunk of Africa. The statements you hear about imperialism is only against the traditional kind.

There won't be a whole lot of unemployed former soldiers. They'd still be employed in the military, I can definately see some occupation duties in the Balkans, Alsace-Lorraine, the lowlands, and Eastern Europe, plus Germany will likely demand some sort of war reparations from the allies.

France is far more likely to go red in this situation that Germany.

Agreed. IIRC, there was a very strong red movement in France at the time as it was. With the destabilizing influence of the loss of the war, unemployed soldiers (see above), and industry damaged even more than OTL, the Communist movement is going to be a hell of a lot stronger.

This is, of course, assuming a war more or less like OTL, and not a successful Schlieffen Plan or something bringing about a quick victory.
 
I don't know about Kaiser Wilhelm's stance towards capitalist, but there needs to be a slight clarification on his stance towards imperialism. The German Reich was not imperialist in the traditional stance; ie, gobbling up chunks of Africa and Asia just so they can paint as much gray as possible on their maps. They wanted influence in Europe; a primarily European empire. They would much rather control the Baltics, Poland, etc, than a chunk of Africa. The statements you hear about imperialism is only against the traditional kind.

I'm not sure I agree; this sounds rather more like the Third Reich than the Second. If Imperial Germany wasn't interested in colonies, why did it acquire several of them in Africa? (Cameroon, for example)

I hesitate to use Wikipedia as an authority, but -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Colonial_Empire

and for Wilhelm's views in particular -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_in_the_sun
 
I'm not sure I agree; this sounds rather more like the Third Reich than the Second. If Imperial Germany wasn't interested in colonies, why did it acquire several of them in Africa? (Cameroon, for example)

I hesitate to use Wikipedia as an authority, but -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Colonial_Empire

and for Wilhelm's views in particular -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_in_the_sun

Oh, Germany was certainly interested in gaining colonies. That I don't disagree with. It just had a focus on Europe. There's a quote by Bismarck... "Your map of Africa is really quite nice. But my map of Africa lies in Europe. Here is Russia, and here... is France, and we're in the middle — that's my map of Africa." I've always interpreted that as Bismarck focusing his schemes on obtaining political power in Europe, rather than colonies in Africa, like the other major powers. Clearly Bismarck's views are different from Wilhelm's, but from what I understood, they were similar in that respect.
 
That entry is so very much wrong, I'm not sure what to say. :mad:

Wilhelm II. did NOT coin that phrase, it was chancellor Bernhard von Bülow in 1897 when he said "We don't want to put anybody in the shade, but we too want to have our place in the sun": http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Deutschlands_Platz_an_der_Sonne

Trust Wikipedia to just make up facts when all else fails to make Germany look bad.

Kabraloth, do you have that in English? I don't speak German, unfortunately. ;-)
 
Here we go:

A place in the sun was a phrase coined by Reichskanzler Bernhard von Bülow on December 6, 1897 in a speech to the German Reichstag, to refer to Germany's colonial empire.[1]

We are ready to accomodate the interests of other Great Powers in East Asia, in the secure foresight, that our own interests will gain recognition in return. In one word: we don't want to put anyobdy in the shade, but we too demand our place in the sun, In East Asia, just as in West India, we will strive - following the traditions of German politics - to enforce our rights and interests without unnecessary antagonism, but also without unnecessary weakness.
—Bernhard von Bülow

[edit] References

[edit] Notes

1. ^ http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Deutschlands_Platz_an_der_Sonne
 
Especially given that the name is grammatically wrong (it should be "der Kaiser" ;) )... :rolleyes:

Nazi Science sneers at linguistic gender!

irreg0439.jpg
 
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