Catherine Pavlovna, the Twice Denied Empress

Perhaps if Gustav III's wound does not become infected and he lives long enough to at least tentatively carry out negotiations with Russia for Alexandria Pavlovna to marry Gustav IV Adolf as part of the new post-Varala order and the coming realignment of everyone against Revolutionary France before one plot or another does him in? Thus Ekaterina Pavlovna's proposed match has no shadow hanging over it and little objection to be raised.
Better leaving Gustav to his own destiny and have Paul accepting his daughter conversion for sealing the alliance with Austria

Cool. So, considering Ekaterina had four kids with her husbands OTL, would you say she's likely to have round about the same (although there was a four year gap between husband no. 1 dying and marriage to husband no. 2 (and husband no. 2's infidelity is supposedly what caused her death - she caught Wilhelm and his mistress of the hour in flagrante delicto, stormed out into the freezing December/January night and took an ill-advised coach ride during which she caught pneumonia IIRC) so perhaps five, or six at the upper limit.

Now, the question is what is Franz's relationship with Ekaterina likely to be like? She was a force to be reckoned with by all accounts. Plus, she's far more intelligent than his second wife had been (and politically savvy), since she apparently inherited her mom's flair for mathematics as well as economics. She's talented, well-educated, beautiful and witty. Am I wrong in thinking that she would probably vie with Josèphine (for most beautiful empress) the same way Sissi did with Eugènie?
Likely good. She is the niece of Franz’s first wife (who probably Franz had liked much more than the second at least judging by Maria Theresa’s treatment of Alexandra) and a very prestigious match.
She has the political connection and influence who Ludovica missed, plus was smarter, more political savvy and had less hate for Napoleon than either the second or third OTL wife of her husband so...
Plus if we have Alexandra still alive and married to Archduke Karl a most likely effect of that would be more power and influence for the Archduke (who was a pretty good general if I am not mistaken) thanks to the combined effort of the sisters
 
plus was smarter, more political savvy and had less hate for Napoleon than either the second or third OTL wife of her husband so...

Do you think of Napoléon can't get Katya/Anna Katya will agree with Metternich that her eldest stepdaughter is as good a bride as any to offer? Or would Napoléon wind up marrying differently?
 
Do you think of Napoléon can't get Katya/Anna Katya will agree with Metternich that her eldest stepdaughter is as good a bride as any to offer? Or would Napoléon wind up marrying differently?
Well Napoleon here will be forced to try directly for Anna (and unlikely to get her) unless he is able to get Maria Amalia of Naples for Eugene and so he will be free to remarry with Augusta of Bavaria.
Is pretty likely who Maria Luisa’s sacrifice will be seen as a necessary disgrace (unless Archduke Karl was able to get better results against France) and Katya and Alexandra will be likely so sad too see Maria Theresa’s eldest daughter forced to a such marriage (specially in place of their younger sister)....
 
Well Napoleon here will be forced to try directly for Anna (and unlikely to get her) unless he is able to get Maria Amalia of Naples for Eugene and so he will be free to remarry with Augusta of Bavaria.
Is pretty likely who Maria Luisa’s sacrifice will be seen as a necessary disgrace (unless Archduke Karl was able to get better results against France) and Katya and Alexandra will be likely so sad too see Maria Theresa’s eldest daughter forced to a such marriage (specially in place of their younger sister)....

Would being brother-in-law to the empress affect Teschen's OTL results against France though?
 
Would being brother-in-law to the empress affect Teschen's OTL results against France though?
I am not sure about that but if, like I remember, Teschen was one of the best generals of the Austrians but had little power and his brother do not listen enough to him, maybe with more power some defeats (when he was not directly against Napoleon) can be victories or at least Austria can suffer defeats less bad than OTL...
 
Would being brother-in-law to the empress affect Teschen's OTL results against France though?

Probably the French could not care less who is his sister-in-law so I don’t think that this would add to much to his, quite formidable, reputation. :)

He was commander in chief and head of the Council of War and allowed to conduct the reforms he thought necessary. What else he could realistically get? In 1809 Austrian performance was quite impressive but Nappy had more experienced troops, better subordinate commanders and did not have to waste time arguing about implementation of his plans. Plus, Austrians tended to consider their cavalry mostly as a tool for covering a retreat.
 
Probably the French could not care less who is his sister-in-law so I don’t think that this would add to much to his, quite formidable, reputation. :)

He was commander in chief and head of the Council of War and allowed to conduct the reforms he thought necessary. What else he could realistically get? In 1809 Austrian performance was quite impressive but Nappy had more experienced troops, better subordinate commanders and did not have to waste time arguing about implementation of his plans. Plus, Austrians tended to consider their cavalry mostly as a tool for covering a retreat.
Oh, well I must have make confusion between him and some other Archduke about power and influence in the army
 
So, I came across this while I was looking for something else on the German wiki, in the article on Ludwig I of Bavaria:

According to the alliance and marriage contracts concluded on October 1, 1799 at Gattschina Castle in St. Petersburg between Kurpfalz-Bayern and Russia, he [Ludwig I] was to marry the 1786-born daughter of Czar Paul I, Grand Duchess Katharina, as the Bavarian Crown Prince. However, the marriage project came in the following years to a decided contradiction, especially Napoleon. At the Erfurt Prince Congress in 1808, the plan was finally abandoned against the will of the Crown Prince.

Which seems to indicate (to me, anyway, I could be wrong) that Paul I had little to no objection marrying his daughter to Catholic archdukes.

Now Catherine the Great died in November 1796. Say the Empress Maria Teresa dies in January 1797 (giving birth to the future empress of Brasil - I figure that both the future empress and her daughter, the queen of Portugal, died of childbed complications IIRC, plus Maria Teresa died of childbirth complications a decade later anyway, so why not).
Were relations with Sweden so damaged that a marriage between Alexandra and Gustaf IV could not be salvaged? (Gustaf only wed his wife in October 1797, nearly a year after Catherine the Great died)? Either way, if Alexandra is already queen of Sweden, the emperor of Austria would be a much better option than his younger brother for her if that's not the case.

So, how would this look

Paul I, Emperor of Russia's daughters as of 1800:
Alexandra, wife of Franz II/Gustaf IV
Helena, wife of the Erbprinz of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Ekaterina, wife of Franz II/Ludwig I of Bavaria
Maria, wife of the (grand) duke of Saxe-Weimar
Olga (died in infancy)
Anna (unmarried)
 
So, I came across this while I was looking for something else on the German wiki, in the article on Ludwig I of Bavaria:



Which seems to indicate (to me, anyway, I could be wrong) that Paul I had little to no objection marrying his daughter to Catholic archdukes.

Now Catherine the Great died in November 1796. Say the Empress Maria Teresa dies in January 1797 (giving birth to the future empress of Brasil - I figure that both the future empress and her daughter, the queen of Portugal, died of childbed complications IIRC, plus Maria Teresa died of childbirth complications a decade later anyway, so why not).
Were relations with Sweden so damaged that a marriage between Alexandra and Gustaf IV could not be salvaged? (Gustaf only wed his wife in October 1797, nearly a year after Catherine the Great died)? Either way, if Alexandra is already queen of Sweden, the emperor of Austria would be a much better option than his younger brother for her if that's not the case.

So, how would this look

Paul I, Emperor of Russia's daughters as of 1800:
Alexandra, wife of Franz II/Gustaf IV
Helena, wife of the Erbprinz of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Ekaterina, wife of Franz II/Ludwig I of Bavaria
Maria, wife of the (grand) duke of Saxe-Weimar
Olga (died in infancy)
Anna (unmarried)
After Gustav’s behavior is pretty unlikely seeing a chance for him to still wed Alexandra.
Franz II and Alexandra is a lot interesting. What we have said for Catherine is obviously still valid so she would need to convert but her life in Vienna would be much better than OTL (as she would have neither suspicious court or jealous Empress to ruin her life). Catherine in Bavaria also sound a lot interesting as that united to the wedding of Franz and Alexandra would keep likely Bavaria much more distant from France than OTL
 
Recently finished reading Zamoyski's Rites of Peace about the fuckfest that was the Congress of Vienna. And I really do mean fuckfest in the absolute porno sense of the word. I had to take a cold shower afterwards ;). No idea that diplomats had so much fun - since one guy bedded Pauline and Caroline Bonaparte and Hortense de Beauharnais. Eugène de Beauharnais and the GD Konstantin were sharing a mistress. Lord Aberdeen sent his secretary, Fred Lamb (Dear Lord M's brother) to bang some other minister's mistress so that he could find out what their govt was plotting. Some girl the duke of Coburg (Prince Albert's dad) had seduced, who came to Vienna to get custody of the son she and Ernst had had, wound up as mistress of someone else. Even the oft-repeated quote by Metternich of "I found half of Europe at my antechamber door" is repeated in it's entirety, where Metternich ends off "and lastly there was a girl who offered either that which was not worth having or which the treasury of a hundred nations would not buy, in order to get a passport to Paris to go see her Mummy."

Either way. Couple things about Katya stood out for me there:
At the Congress, Katya was being offered for the duke of Teschen (Marie Feodorovna was against this, not Alexander). And Katya and Teschen seemed to be reasonably interested in each other. But when Katya decided on her next conquest, Teschen continued making a fool of himself over her. The plan was (or so Castlereigh, I think, heard), that Teschen and Katya would marry and be set up as monarchs of the Netherlands.
Another interesting anecdote is that Katya actually played a major role in the marriage of Princess Charlotte of Wales. I've always known Katya did, but I always understood that it was as Leopold of Coburg's "benefactress" rather than anything else. Oh no, Katya wasn't a disinterested party as I'd always believed. She'd decided to set her hat at the Prince of Orange, reasoning that if Charlotte didn't want him, Katya would marry him. And then proposed one of her brothers (Nikolai or Mikhail) as a husband for Charlotte.
This was apparently considered seriously enough that the British govt had to forbid Alexander to bring either grand duke with him when he came to London. Now that could be a fun way of seeing a Romanov England (everyone's always talking about Victoria-Alexander II, I had no idea that Nicky and Misha were considered (serious enough of a threat) for Charlotte.
Either way, Katya's carryings on with Silly Billy, as Charlotte termed the prince of Orange were what forced Alexander's hand in to allowing him to marry Anna Pavlovna. Who I also found out was rejected by the duc de Berri (I'd always been under the impression that Alexander was the one who refused the match), apparently.
 
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More about the Congress I found interesting, that Louis XVIII went out of his way to insult the Russians (almost as much as what Katya and Sasha did to annoy the British when they were in England), by treating Alexander as though he was a minor prince. Louis was the one who refused Anna Pavlovna for his nephew, although Berri was presumably allowed a say in the matter as well.

The hilarious part being that when Berri refused Anna, Alexander got another marriage proposal for her: from Fernando VII of Spain. That Alexander was willing to consider all these Catholic matches (Anna to Ferdinand I of Austria, Berri or Fernando VII; Katya to Franz II or Teschen (to say nothing of their possible matches to Napoléon), I won't include the Bavarian match, since that was Paul's idea (thanks for spotting that @Kellan) does seem to indicate that at least at the time, religion seemed to play second fiddle to politics (or can @alexmilman @Valena @isabella correct me on this idea).

I mean, religion seems to have been a secondary factor at the congress in general, since there was talk of creating a kingdom of Lombardy under the rule of either the duke of Clarence or the duke of Cambridge (both English princes), who I imagine would've been expected to marry some nice little Catholic girl - either wedding the Jacobite Maria Beatrice of Savoy could be hilarious, but I digress.
 
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