Catherine of Bourbon-Navarre

[JonasResende]

My, but Catherine de Bourbon, duchess d'Albret, princesse de Béarn, was a popular lady. Starting in 1580, she had enough suitors for her hand in marriage:

Philip II of Spain (1580)
Charles III of Lorraine (1581)
Charles Emanuel I of Savoy (1583)
François-Hercule de Valois, Duc d'Alençon (1580-1584) [funny, I thought he was too busy courting Elizabeth I]
Charles de Bourbon, Comte de Soissons (1587)
James VI of Scotland (1588)
Prince Christian of Anhalt (1591)
Henri de Bourbon, Duc de Montpensier (1596)

As everyone knows, the arch-Calvinist infanta married the arch-Catholic duc de Lorraine, and died shortly after the turn of the century, childless.

But what if she'd been married to one of these gentlemen? A second Valois-Bourbon marriage that might see a surviving Valois and a Navarre in personal union with France could be rather interesting. Of course, Philip II would be going for his fifth wife when he marries her - who's he competing with? Henry VIII? Ivan the Terrible?* A Scots-Navarrese Union eventually including England might be fun.

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.

*Does the Catholic Church have a limit about how many marriages it considers legitimate, too? Since one of the things against Tsarevich Dmitri Ivanovich was he was born from Ivan's 7th marriage, and the Orthodox Church only recognizes something like 5-6.

 

[Jonathan]

My, but c, duchess d'Albret, princesse de Béarn, was a popular lady. Starting in 1580, she had enough suitors for her hand in marriage:

Philip II of Spain (1580) - Is 53, to her 21, which is not that bad when you think Elizabeth was 14 and he was 32. But he is the Arch-Arch Catholic, with his nickname being "Philip the Catholic" so I doubt he would be a good choice.

Charles III of Lorraine (1581) Married 3 time by 1583, his mother being an illigitemet daughter of Henry IV who is Catherine's brother, so he would be her great nephew, which although not uncommon in royalty.... is still abit weird.

Charles Emanuel I of Savoy (1583) Three years her juniour, not been married yet. Savoy and France have not been on the best of terms since the occupation of Marquisate of Saluzzo and he was behind the eradication of Protestants in the Duchy, which maybe akward for him to then marry a Protestant.
Although when he is out in battle it would get Catherine, regentcy over the nation that she can use to her (and France/Navarre)'s advantage.

François-Hercule de Valois, Duc d'Alençon (1580-1584) The butch of Anjou, sent hundreds to their death and self-exiled himself from france dying in 1584 .... so no the best idea again
(They were accutly engaged, but Elizabeth I called it off after the massacre in Anjou)

Charles de Bourbon, Comte de Soissons (1587) Apart from his military commander and being a pedigree Bourbon, there is not much, Charles can offer.

James VI of Scotland (1588) - A Stuart-Bourbon-Navarre house could work well, streghten ties with Scotland (later England) and France.
Although he loved his OTL wife he is known for have male favourites which could turn the French against him if it was to be known widely.

Prince Christian of Anhalt (1591) A German prince of the House of Ascania, apart from him playing an important role in the formation of the Protestant Union in 1608, which Catherine may or may not be able to influence, like Charles de Bourbon, he can't offer much.

Henri de Bourbon, Duc de Montpensier (1596) the bottom of the list and the bottom of achievments. He was born, he married, had one child and died, the life of Henri de Bourbon.

The Catholic Church has no real limit about how many marriages it considers legitimate, as long as the marriage has been approved by the Pope, the Prince will be seen as legitimate heir to the throne.

 

[JonasResende]

Philip II of Spain (1580) - Is 53, to her 21, which is not that bad when you think Elizabeth was 14 and he was 32. But he is the Arch-Arch Catholic, with his nickname being "Philip the Catholic" so I doubt he would be a good choice.

Bear in mind that he did also make a suit for Elizabeth I's hand. While no one's ever really made up their mind what Lizzy was, Felipe certainly had no qualms about courting a Protestant if it suited his purpose. Also, as long as Henri IV remains without children, Catherine is heiress to Navarre.

Charles III of Lorraine (1581) Married 3 time by 1583, his mother being an illigitemet daughter of Henry IV who is Catherine's brother, so he would be her great nephew, which although not uncommon in royalty.... is still abit weird.

Not sure which Charles III you're referring to, since I was simply positing that she marry him in 1581 rather than 20 years later as she did OTL.

Charles Emanuel I of Savoy (1583) Three years her juniour, not been married yet. Savoy and France have not been on the best of terms since the occupation of Marquisate of Saluzzo and he was behind the eradication of Protestants in the Duchy, which maybe akward for him to then marry a Protestant.
Although when he is out in battle it would get Catherine, regentcy over the nation that she can use to her (and France/Navarre)'s advantage.

François-Hercule de Valois, Duc d'Alençon (1580-1584) The butch of Anjou, sent hundreds to their death and self-exiled himself from france dying in 1584 .... so no the best idea again
(They were accutly engaged, but Elizabeth I called it off after the massacre in Anjou)

Charles de Bourbon, Comte de Soissons (1587) Apart from his military commander and being a pedigree Bourbon, there is not much, Charles can offer.

No comment.

James VI of Scotland (1588) - A Stuart-Bourbon-Navarre house could work well, streghten ties with Scotland (later England) and France.
Although he loved his OTL wife he is known for have male favourites which could turn the French against him if it was to be known widely.

Really? Yes, it makes it awkward - see Philippe I d'Orléans, Edward II and other princes who liked pretty boys - but considering the rumors of Henri III's alleged homosexuality with the mignons, I don't think France (or Navarre for that matter) is in a position to throw stones.

Henri de Bourbon, Duc de Montpensier (1596) the bottom of the list and the bottom of achievments. He was born, he married, had one child and died, the life of Henri de Bourbon.

Bear in mind that the Duc de Montpensier was la Grande Mademoiselle's grandfather. So if nothing else, he seems to have head screwed on straight when it came to collecting land.

 

[Yorel]

François-Hercule de Valois, Duc d'Alençon (1580-1584) [funny, I thought he was too busy courting Elizabeth I]

While he was courting Elizabeth and they got along well, I'm not sure the relationship between Alençon and the Virgin Queen would have gone anywhere. So it's possible Catherine was considered as a "backup plan". And honestly, Alençon marrying Henry de Navarre's sister would have been a good way for him to strengthen his position (especially if he had lived to suceed his brother). I'm wondering though if such a marriage wouldn't look a bit like the one between Henri de Navarre and Marguerite de Valois (purely political but supportive of each other's position).

Charles de Bourbon, Comte de Soissons (1587) Apart from his military commander and being a pedigree Bourbon, there is not much, Charles can offer.

Charles isn't that far in the line of succession. Plus, Catherine was actually quite fond of him from what I've understood. I think she tried to elope with him at one point.

James VI of Scotland (1588) - A Stuart-Bourbon-Navarre house could work well, streghten ties with Scotland (later England) and France.
Although he loved his OTL wife he is known for have male favourites which could turn the French against him if it was to be known widely.

Not sure that would matter much really... OTL Henri IV married one of his mistresses to his cousin the prince of Condé, who was said to be homosexual.

There is also the case of Henri III who had male favorites: only his political opponents attacked him because of such. Besides, having male favorites doesn't necessarilly equal being homosexual and was not always perceived as such.

Henri de Bourbon, Duc de Montpensier (1596) the bottom of the list and the bottom of achievments. He was born, he married, had one child and died, the life of Henri de Bourbon.

The House of Montpensier was exceptionnally rich and wealthy though. In fact, that made it a pretty attractive party for French nobility: which is why Gaston d'Orléans (younger son of Henri IV, brother of Louis XIII) later married Marie de Montpensier to get the inheritance: it eventually went to their daughter (La Grande Mademoiselle), who later willed it to Philippe d'Orléans (Louis XIV's brother).

 

[Wallflower]

I have a suggestion:

1 - Somehow, avert the Aragonese occupation of Southern Navarrese lands back in early 16th century

2 - Decades later, marry Jeanne III of Navarre to Antoine de Bourbon as IOTL, however, make her only son Henry IV die as a child, making Catherine of Bourbon the sole and rightful heir, making the house of Bourbon-Condé the heirs to the throne of France

3 - Catherine, being an ardent protestant, would search for a suitor in Northern Europe, more open to Protestant ideas

4 - Marry her off to James IV and I of Scotland and Ireland, 7 years younger but still a prominent figure

5 - Any children she has with him will automatically make Navarre part of the English-Scottish inheritance

6 - Yeah, a Protestant exclave in Southern Europe, right between France and Spain

7 - See Europe burn

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I have a suggestion:

1 - Somehow, avert the Aragonese occupation of Southern Navarrese lands back in early 16th century

2 - Decades later, marry Jeanne III of Navarre to Antoine de Bourbon as IOTL, however, make her only son Henry IV die as a child, making Catherine of Bourbon the sole and rightful heir, making the house of Bourbon-Condé the heirs to the throne of France

3 - Catherine, being an ardent protestant, would search for a suitor in Northern Europe, more open to Protestant ideas

4 - Marry her off to James IV and I of Scotland and Ireland, 7 years younger but still a prominent figure

5 - Any children she has with him will automatically make Navarre part of the English-Scottish inheritance

6 - Yeah, a Protestant exclave in Southern Europe, right between France and Spain

7 - See Europe burn

I wonder if Jeanne III of Navarre and Catherine de Medici might not rather go for a marriage between Catherine and OTL Henri III or Alençon in such a scenario? But, still, the idea has merits. Maybe even a HYW 2.0 on the horizon.

 

[Teejay]

If Catherine of Bourbon-Navarre she married James I and VI, any successors they would have would be definitely Calvinist in their religious outlook. In OTL James wife Anne of Denmark was probably Catholic and converted to Catholicism later in life.

England would have ended becoming an absolutist monarchy, along with a Calvinist Church of England in the long term. Because a lot of the Puritans would have been quite happy with an absolute monarch who shared their religious views. In OTL the main reason why a lot of people did not like Charles I that he did not share their religious views, not that he tried to become a absolute monarch.

 

[Wallflower]

If Navarre somehow manages to survive the advances of its neighbours, something intriguing could develop: in order to try to get more of a cultural independence, Navarre would invest in its Basque roots, creating somewhat of national identity and erasing away the uber-Catholic Spanish-French influence from society. Nafarroako Erresuma, hm?

Besides, maybe Navarre becomes the refuge for Jews, southern-european protestants, Moors and other persecuted groups in Spain/France.

Maybe England, in the midst of its own religious and political intrigues, and having Navarre as the consolation prize for the spare heir through a possible marriage to the uber-Calvinist Catherine Bourbon, could hire the country as its explorer of the New World, the founders of the Hamahiru Koloniak.

Stretched? A lot. But many IOTL things that otherwise would be absurd indeed happened, so why not?

But, still, the idea has merits. Maybe even a HYW 2.0 on the horizon.

Thanks! Sorry for my ignorance, but what's HYW?

 

[Wallflower]

Now the furthermost of stretches:

1 - Catherine of Bourbon indeed marries James I of England when he's around 20 (in 1586) and she's 27.

2 - Around the same year of the marriage, their first child is born: Henry IX of England (and maybe IV of Navarre if he is the only son).

3 - In Sweden, king Charles IX's eldest daughter, Catherine Vasa, is only two years older than the newborn english king and a marriage between both children promptly arranged. Don't forget that IOTL, due to the extinction of her younger brother's line, she became the ultimate ancestress of most of subsequent Swedish monarchs until the present day.

4 - Decades later, as IOTL, Queen Christina of Sweden, the only child by Catherine Vasa's brother and king Gustav II Adolf, renounces to the throne and converts to Catholicism, leaving the throne to her nearest relatives through her aunt...

5 - ... Her English, Stuart cousins, offspring of the marriage between Henry IX of England and Catherine Vasa of Sweden.

6 - Yeah, now the Stuarts are kings of England, Scotland, Ireland, Navarre and Sweden.

7 - Europe will pretty much burn right now.

 

[Wallflower]

Now a very, very implausible succession outcome, that would only work if all the rest of Europe was stoned and doped and cared only for hunting butterflies over a green field:

1 - Decades later after the ascension of such highly unquestioned king of multiple nations, namely some alternative Charles I of England (he could still be born in 1610, but as James I's grandson, not son), the king's granddaughters Mary and Anne are the only imediate heir to the throne through the male line. The agnatic end of the house of Stuart? Yes, but not the end of absurd King Ralph situations.

2 - Let's put that Mary II Stuart and William III Orange-Nassau, the Stadholder of the United Provinces, differently from IOTL manage to produce offspring, namely some William IV of Orange and also IV of England. Anne, meanwhile, marries the prince George Oldenburg of Denmark and Norway, but now the couple has a deserved and awaited healthy child, the Princess Sophie Amalie of Cumberland (this surname comes from her father's title as consort to Anne).

4 - Somehow, the Danish-originated cadet branches of Holstein-Gottorp and Schleswig-Holstein-Sondenburg are extinct through the male line. Then, there would be no clear successors to the Danish-Norwegian throne if the king Christian V dies childless... Oops. There were never any laws restricting the Danish throne to the male line however. Double Oops!

5 - Few years later, now teenagers, William IV of England (and Scotland, and Ireland, and Navarre, and Sweden, and pretty much most of the Netherlands) and Sophie of Cumberland, heiress to Denmark-Norway, marry.

6 - Yes. Any offspring by the couple would inherit England, Scotland, Ireland, Navarre, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. Some 25% of Europe will belong to a single monarch or, otherwise, to a single royal house, not the house of Stuart, but maybe the house of Orange-Nassau-Oldenburg. Yeah. If you take into account that the Swedish also became rulers of Finland, Estonia and parts of Pomerania/Germany, things would get really weird from this point and on.

7 - Europe will burst into raging flames.

But I reiterate, for the rest of Europe to let such thing happen, all the monarchs and politicians will have to be totally doped by Valium. For the sake of fun, let it happen!

 

[The Professor]

Now the furthermost of stretches:

1 - Catherine of Bourbon indeed marries James I of England when he's around 20 (in 1586) and she's 27.

2 - Around the same year of the marriage, their first child is born: Henry IX of England (and maybe IV of Navarre if he is the only son).

3 - In Sweden, king Charles IX's eldest daughter, Catherine Vasa, is only two years older than the newborn english king and a marriage between both children promptly arranged. Don't forget that IOTL, due to the extinction of her younger brother's line, she became the ultimate ancestress of most of subsequent Swedish monarchs until the present day.

4 - Decades later, as IOTL, Queen Christina of Sweden, the only child by Catherine Vasa's brother and king Gustav II Adolf, renounces to the throne and converts to Catholicism, leaving the throne to her nearest relatives through her aunt...

5 - ... Her English, Stuart cousins, offspring of the marriage between Henry IX of England and Catherine Vasa of Sweden.

6 - Yeah, now the Stuarts are kings of England, Scotland, Ireland, Navarre and Sweden.

7 - Europe will pretty much burn right now.

Doesn't the Swedish Parliament still have to confirm the succession as a holdover from when they elected their kings?
Would they not prefer to select a younger brother/sister of the Stuart line and conveniently marry them to a Swedish noble?