What would it take for the Cathars of Languedoc (as they do in Empty America) or Bogomils of Bulgaria to survive and become a major Abrahamic religion of its own?
What would it take for the Cathars of Languedoc (as they do in Empty America) or Bogomils of Bulgaria to survive and become a major Abrahamic religion of its own?
Cathars and Bogomils are both heretical Christian sects; hardly a 4th Abrahamic religion. In fact, the Cathars are notorious for referring to themselves as the "true heart of the Christian church". That may have been one of the reasons the Pope didn't like 'em.
Those were more or less my thoughts as well. Somehow, you would have butterfly away the Albigensian Crusade and then butterfly away the Cathars' no sex rule. I'm not entirely sure how you accomplish that.
Yeah, if the only way a religion can grow is by constantly gaining new converts, because it does not allow members to breed new members through sexual means, it is not going to become anything more than a minority sect anytime soon.
Most Cathars themselves had sex; it was only the cathar priests who did not.
Two notes here: only the priests had to abstain, the Credentes were allowed to indulge in worldly pleasures. And note that the ban on taking life did not prevent the Cathar-supporters from raising significant armies to threaten the Crusaders in OTL.But to become a major religion? A religion that decries to the point of banning both killing and sex is gonna have a hard time in the cruel world.
Although I am fairly certain that Catharism spread mostly by conversion and only seldom through the procreation of new followers.Believe me, Catharism would not have had the spread that it had even in OTL if nobody could have sex.
Although I am fairly certain that Catharism spread mostly by conversion and only seldom through the procreation of new followers.
IIRC, the pleasures weren't the biggest problem, the procreation part was. They were allowed to engage in non-procreative sex. IIRC, it's where the word 'bugger' originated from.Two notes here: only the priests had to abstain, the Credentes were allowed to indulge in worldly pleasures.
Unless the Catholic Church is alot less powerful then this movement won't be too widespread.
Isn't there already a fourth Abrahamic religion? Called Baha'i?![]()
Isn't there already a fourth Abrahamic religion? Called Baha'i?![]()
It was essential Gnostic, similar to Manichaean liturgy IIRC. There was a group of ascetic priests called the Perfect. They issued the sacred consolamentum, organized worshipers, etc. The Perfect abstained from basically everything possible except for praying and things needed to survive. According to Cathar beliefs, the Perfect would be released from the reincarnation cycle upon death.Is there any historical evidence for a Cathar liturgy? Was it similar to the pre-Trent Roman or Gallican forms? Or was the Cathar liturgy esoteric/gnostic and something altogether outside of the Western Christian experience?
Not everyone does, but enough do to replace the celibate Perfect as the old ones die off...But vast swathes of a region's people, in general, will not give up a basic human need easily.
You're partially right. Reproduction was discouraged because it trapped a soul in the material prison. At the same time, sex was frowned upon (even if it was not for procreation).IIRC, the pleasures weren't the biggest problem, the procreation part was. They were allowed to engage in non-procreative sex. IIRC, it's where the word 'bugger' originated from.