Catalan Company and Asia Minor.

They were hired by the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II in a last effort to save western Asia Minor, which had been nearly completely over-run by the Turks. WI: They had remained loyal and cooperative to the Byzantines after defeating the Turks. Could Asia Minor have been saved?
 

Philip

Donor
At the time, the Turks in Anatolia were are disorganized, so I think it reasonable that the Catalan Company could have some success there. However, I don't think they could take all of Anatolia. Most likely, they would carve out a small (probably temporary) state -- maybe along the Aegean coast? Depending on where they go, this could have very far reaching effects. If the Company travels through Byzantine lands and launches its campaign from Nicaea, we could see the disruption of the formation of the Ottomans.
 
The kings of Spain still have "Duke of Athens" as one of their titles -they inherited that from the Crown of Aragon, who once had a relatively important empire across the mediterranean.
But at the time this happened, the distances were too great for any permanent state to succeed, either as a part of Aragon or as an independent Catalan state.
I don't think you could even get a relevant catalan population there -unless you arrange a Catholic Kings-style expulsion from the king of Aragon to some rebellious faction. History shows than the jews are always an option for any insane royal overreacion, but there is also the Cathars )or a post POD equivalent sect of heretics), the muslims, the mozarabs, and plain old catholic catalan rebels
 
The kings of Spain still have "Duke of Athens" as one of their titles -they inherited that from the Crown of Aragon, who once had a relatively important empire across the mediterranean.
But at the time this happened, the distances were too great for any permanent state to succeed, either as a part of Aragon or as an independent Catalan state.
I don't think you could even get a relevant catalan population there -unless you arrange a Catholic Kings-style expulsion from the king of Aragon to some rebellious faction. History shows than the jews are always an option for any insane royal overreacion, but there is also the Cathars )or a post POD equivalent sect of heretics), the muslims, the mozarabs, and plain old catholic catalan rebels

Uhh...the Catalan Company were a group of Catalan mercenaries. They didn't operate in the name of Catalonia so none of their gains would go to Spain.
 

Philip

Donor
The kings of Spain still have "Duke of Athens" as one of their titles -they inherited that from the Crown of Aragon,

IIRC, the Company recognized the King of Sicily as their sovereign. The connection to Aragon only came later.

But at the time this happened, the distances were too great for any permanent state to succeed, either as a part of Aragon or as an independent Catalan state. I don't think you could even get a relevant catalan population there

And? What does that have to do with the Catalan Company having a successful campaign in Anatolia?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
The vast majority of the population of western Anatolia at the time was still Greek. If the Catalans could arrest the Byzantine decline in the region and nip the Ottomans in the bud, I think we could see the Byzantine Empire lasting for a while longer than it actually did. Though we should not forget how woefully incompetent Andronikos II was...
 
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At the time, the Turks in Anatolia were are disorganized, so I think it reasonable that the Catalan Company could have some success there. However, I don't think they could take all of Anatolia. Most likely, they would carve out a small (probably temporary) state -- maybe along the Aegean coast? Depending on where they go, this could have very far reaching effects. If the Company travels through Byzantine lands and launches its campaign from Nicaea, we could see the disruption of the formation of the Ottomans.

Remember that the Komneni of 12th century never could recover the whole Asia Minor, nor could 13th century Nicaean Empire.

However, I don´t see why the Catalans might not save from the Turks everything that the Romans held before 1262, nor recover some more.

What about the Romans settling the Catalans on lands recovered from Turks at safe distance from Constantinople... say, in Southwest Asia Minor?
 
There was no king of Spain during this time or even the idea of Spain:

Heres the regular timeline:

1302: Many Aragonese soldiers are left unemployed as the struggle against France comes to an end

1303: The Catalan Company is formed by Roger de Flor, both the Crown of Aragon and the Byzantines are in favor of them

1305: Growing distrust between the emperor and Roger de flor, finally the Catalans decide to take the Emperor down, they continue to ravage Thrace and Macedonia.

1307:they give it a rest

1311: Catalan company seize Athens

1317: the catalan company are much less independent as the illegitimate son of the king of naples is placed as company head, and duke of athens.

1318: parts of Thessally and Thebes are added to the Catalan
dominion.

Fast forward:

1381: through the inheritance of Sicily, Pedro IV of Aragon gets Athens and Neopatria

1388: the Aragonese sell it to Florence
 
The problem is the nature of the Catalan Co. As unruly mercenaries, they are not the best instrument for asserting central control, and as it was, they make enemies the very day they set foot in Byzantine territory.

If they were more successful, they would most likely provoke a reaction in Muslim Anatolia, for instance uniting the various beyliks in a common effort to deal with the Catalans.

The Co. managed to recruit Turcoman cavalry in OTL, but this force was built for plunder and raiding, not state building.

I think you are more likely to see a Turco-Byzantine alliance against the Catalans than you are Catalan propping of Byzantine authority.

BTW, there is not enough evidence about the religious balance of Western Anatolia in this period to make any definitive statement about the percentage Muslim, but the region was certainly not overwhelmingly Christian anymore. There were Byzantinish enclaves, notably Philadelphia, but the countryside would have been fairly Islamic by this time - I doubt Christians former more than half of the overall population of the region.

Anyway, Catalan accomplishments in Asia Minor are likely to be ephemeral, although establishing strong coastal positions is not impossible. If I were a Catalan commander interested in a lasting territorial achievement, I'd go for Aegean Islands. That's still not all that secure with Venice and Genoa floating around, but it seems a better bet than something on the mainland.
 
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Catalan Company

I agree. Most of the Greek peasants had fled to the larger cities or Aegan islands or to Constantinople. I don't know if Andronicus had planned to eventually re-settle the areas that the Catalans were to conquer had they remained cooperative. It seems were logical that they (the Catalans) could have been used to drive out the remaining Franks from Greece, such as Athens and Achaea. At this point, Asia Minor was clearly doomed. It would have been better for the Greeks to abandon their remaining territories and concentrate on consolidating their position in Europe.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
We had this discussion a few months back on CF.net.

Basically, the Byzantines are done in Anatolia, even if Andronicus kept the Akritai's tax exemptions in place. The Akritai were of dubious value anyways. Although, if Andronicus can get the Catalans to invade, they might not fall to the Ottomans, and might fall to someone else.

IMO, the last chance to save the Byzantine position in Anatolia is to get the Nicean Empire focused on Asia instead of Europe. But that is unlikely at best.
 
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