Carriers at Pearl Harbour

What would have happened if the American aircraft carriers that were absent from Pearl Harbour at the time of the Japanese attack 7th December 1941 had been there and had been sunk by the Japanese?:mad:

What effect would this have on the Pacific campaign and would America have been able to win World War Two?
 
Well, for one, there problay would'nt be a midway.

Now, to expand upon the question, all of the carriers, or two or three?
 

Hendryk

Banned
I too am interested in this. IIRC the Enterprise was due at Pearl Harbor that day, but it ran late because of a storm.
 
Well, the Pacific Fleet only had three carriers assigned to it if I recall correctly, during December 1941. Enterprise, Lexington and Saratoga if I recall correctly.

So, the attack goes perfectly and those three carriers get hit at Pearl with the rest of the fleet.

The US still has Hornet, Wasp, Ranger and Yorktown.

It's an issue of strategy at this point. Does the US go with Germany First and put the Pacific War, which is bound to go worse for the US, on the backburner, or transfer most of the Altantic Fleet to bump up the Pacific Fleet's strength into something respectable?

Mind you Japan had six fleet carriers and several light carriers at this point, so things aren't looking good any which way for the US of A.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Most likely scenario based on original locations of the Pacific Fleet in December would have had the possibility of the Enterprise and the Lexington being the carriers that would have had the most likely possibility of being in harbor during the attack.

While the Saratoga was the only other carrier in the Pacific leading up to the war, it wasn't even schedules to be in Pearl for at least a couple of weeks as it that task force was on the west coast and arriving at San Diego.

So most likely scenario results in the the Enterprise and Lexington being taken out, although whether the damage is permanent or not who knows. Saratoga is sent to Pearl, but due to being the only carrier period, the planned relief mission to Wake would probably be canceled.

Conversely, if the carriers are in harbor and targeted, might one or two of the battleships that in OTL ended up being knocked out end up okay? Not that one or two single battleships would make a difference when the rest of the battleline is gone though.
 
Most likely scenario based on original locations of the Pacific Fleet in December would have had the possibility of the Enterprise and the Lexington being the carriers that would have had the most likely possibility of being in harbor during the attack.

While the Saratoga was the only other carrier in the Pacific leading up to the war, it wasn't even schedules to be in Pearl for at least a couple of weeks as it that task force was on the west coast and arriving at San Diego.

So most likely scenario results in the the Enterprise and Lexington being taken out, although whether the damage is permanent or not who knows. Saratoga is sent to Pearl, but due to being the only carrier period, the planned relief mission to Wake would probably be canceled.

Conversely, if the carriers are in harbor and targeted, might one or two of the battleships that in OTL ended up being knocked out end up okay? Not that one or two single battleships would make a difference when the rest of the battleline is gone though.

If Enterprise and Lexington were there, you'd probably see lighter casualties on the battleships and cruisers. You'd need to pull an Arizonaesque sinking of both carriers to ensure they're not refloated.

In reality, this just means the US would probably move all it's carriers to the Pacific. Wasp and Hornet were already on the way. Ranger stayed in the Altantic OTL, but despite the Germany First mindset FDR had, it'd be needed more.

So you'd have six vs four fleet carriers at the onset. Of course it's still all academic once Essex gets launched.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
The Enterprise is delivering VMF 211 to Wake Island.

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Locations Of Warships Of The United States Navy
December 7 1941


Aircraft Carriers (7 + 1 Escort Carrier)Hull #Vessel NameLocationFleetCV - 2LexingtonAt sea transporting aircraft to Midway Island.
460 Miles East of Midway.PacificCV - 3SaratogaAt San Diego California.PacificCV - 4RangerAt sea returning to Norfolk Va. Caribbean.AtlanticCV - 5YorktownAt Norfolk Va. AtlanticCV - 6EnterpriseAt sea returning to Pearl Harbor from Wake Island.
200 Miles West Of Pearl Harbor.PacificCV - 7WaspGrassy Bay Bermuda. AtlanticCV - 8HornetFitting out Norfolk Virginia. AtlanticAVG - 1Long IslandNorfolk Virginia. Atlantic
http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usf01.htm

The BEST the IJN could hope for was getting the Lex & Enterprise in port. Realistically only Enterprise was in any real danger of making port since Lexington was outbound to Midway with VMSB-231 and its Vindicators. The carriers were running all over the Pacific ferrying penny packets of aircraft (and keeping an eye on the expected Japanese line of approach for ANY sort of attack against Hawaii out of the Mandates).

As far as the original question... Almost no difference.

The Pacific Fleet would be reduced to two decks until the Yorktown reached San Diego on 12/30/41 (IOTL the Pac Fleet wound up with two decks anyway because the Sara was torpedoed on 1/11/42 while moving to meet up with Enterprise and had to return to to Bremerton, via Oahu for repairs. This attack almost certainly doesn't occur if the Saratoga isn't rushing to jion up with Enterprise.)

Carriers at Pearl or not, Japan gets hammered flat.
 
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