Capetian England?

I think I'll use Faeelin's POD.

Henry will win because the nobles see a young boyking as a better choice than a french conqueror. Have john live instead of having henry take over and louis wins.

England falls into the capetian bag, and unless something goes seriously wrong, they dominate western europe.
..however along the something goes wrong route...
 
Royal Authority had declined in England under John Lackland. In OTL this would change under Edward I. Potenially hostile barons kept Henry III in check, however under Louis I's distant monarchy we'd see a different approach. France would not be attacked either as Normandy isn't a humilation to them, but rather a truimph.

Wales is likely to last longer without French focus on the area. The burden might be spread around, with taxes. However the wars these are involved in are likely going to take the toll on England, rather than France. The contrasts need to be studied further between Capetian France, and Plantagent England...
 
Because of Louis IX, aka Saint Louis, aka Louis II of England in this scenario, was seen semi-divine after he died. His cannonization changed the whole of the remaineder of the Capetian Monarcy, heck even the Kingdom of France. 'Emporer within his own Kingdom.' Absolutiontion...they thought they were better than any other crown in Europe. This may indeed rub off onto England.
 
Ireland and Scotland

IIRC King John had held some unique position in Ireland for the first time (Lord of Ireland ? Something like this) so if Louis I of England is going to be seen as his successor THERE he will probably have to launch an Irish expedition

The alternative would be to lose much of the residual control of Ireland and potentially give any remnant English royalist force a good base - there are enough lineal descendants of the Plantagenets to provide claimants to the throne for a few generations. Scotland as well may well back these at opportune times.

Scotland is going to be a pain to France instead of a useful potential ally. Might we get a Capetian conquest of Scotland ? I can certainly see Anglo-French focus on the North instead of on the South, and certainly don't think Saint Louis was pre-destined either to go on Crusade to Tunis or to be sanctified (*though maybe that's blasphemous, I'm not sure). He might be this timeline's 'Hammer of The Scots'.
 

Thande

Donor
IIRC King John had held some unique position in Ireland for the first time (Lord of Ireland ? Something like this) so if Louis I of England is going to be seen as his successor THERE he will probably have to launch an Irish expedition
He was the first Lord of Ireland but IIRC that was just a paper title at this point. Certainly no Stuart-style John fleeing to Ireland type thing IMO.

Remember that John was excommunicated for long periods, so the French could portray this as a crusade.
 
He was the first Lord of Ireland but IIRC that was just a paper title at this point. Certainly no Stuart-style John fleeing to Ireland type thing IMO.

Remember that John was excommunicated for long periods, so the French could portray this as a crusade.

I was thinking more of Henry going there and getting the support of whatever Anglo-Irish barons were there at this date.

Kind of like Thingy the Aetheling in 1066, that sort of thing

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Some of my studying has reintresed me in this POD. Specifcally in how William the Conqueror set up his fuedal reigm. Its intresting to note that William I had made it so no one family could control any county, and made them directly responsible to the king. (He did the same with the local church) Lackland had already screwed up a good deal of William I's direct fuedalism, and given how the Capets ruled they might give more automony to the Baron's that ousted John at first.

If so you could see the prominacy of a few lords come over certain counties to the point of becoming local princes. This control would allow them to built their own armies, and tax their own vassals, making the French powerless in England without furfilling these more powerful nobel's whims. Eventually the French might try and reassert dominance and trigger a rebellion by English nobillity capable of acting as powerful Dukes or Counts. England balkanises as a result, becoming a future target for French expansion, nationalist unification, or something else.
 
Greater Templar presence in England perhaps.

Templars are more likely to survive given the possibility of a richer King of France or England as an alternate base/refuge in the face of a crackdown in France alone.
 
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