Cao Cao victorious at Red Cliff

Hm. Okay then.



Interesting.

So if Cao Cao reunites China ITTL under his banner, but ostensibly under the Han, what do you think he and his son would do? Would this victory make it feasible for Cao Cao himself to take the throne? Or would the reunification under the Han would delay Cao Pi's taking the throne, or butterfly it away completely?
Yes,since most of the commanders and governors would have been proteges or benefactors of Cao Cao.His whole point of making himself duke,then king was basically to slowly diminish the prestige of the Han court and make a transition more preferable.My argument is that unless a dynasty who has united China had it's prestige decreased to a certain point,like ridiculously low after being puppets for a quite some time,it's generally difficult to have them outright deposed.
 
Yes,since most of the commanders and governors would have been proteges or benefactors of Cao Cao.His whole point of making himself duke,then king was basically to slowly diminish the prestige of the Han court and make a transition more preferable.My argument is that unless a dynasty who has united China had it's prestige decreased to a certain point,like ridiculously low after being puppets for a quite some time,it's generally difficult to have them outright deposed.

eh, Sima Yi struck down the Wei court when they were still beating themselves off on how awesome their (Grand)father Cao Cao was.

But the point is that with a healthy dose of violence anything can be solved and things like prestige won't matter much, if anything Cao Pi was definitely smart enough to employ Carrot and Stick that would pretty much destroy any prestige left in Han sympathizers.
 
eh, Sima Yi struck down the Wei court when they were still beating themselves off on how awesome their (Grand)father Cao Cao was.

But the point is that with a healthy dose of violence anything can be solved and things like prestige won't matter much, if anything Cao Pi was definitely smart enough to employ Carrot and Stick that would pretty much destroy any prestige left in Han sympathizers.

The result of a coup attempt at deposing the ruling dynasty in a stable empire would be the Anshi Rebellion or warlords rising up.The military governors everywhere most likely will march on the capital.Another reason why a coup attempt at deposing the ruling dynasty isn't possible is that when the empire's united is that no one should have had the opportunity to garner a large reputation and prestige for people to follow them in times of peace.There's a reason why the first emperors of a united dynasty generally have useful subordinates executed--this is because these subordinates also would have garnered large prestige and following during the conquest of the land.

Final problem about the Caos of course was that they were a relatively new dynasty(one which has ruled less than a century) and that they just showed it's possible to usurp the throne themselves.
 
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eh, Sima Yi struck down the Wei court when they were still beating themselves off on how awesome their (Grand)father Cao Cao was.

But the point is that with a healthy dose of violence anything can be solved and things like prestige won't matter much, if anything Cao Pi was definitely smart enough to employ Carrot and Stick that would pretty much destroy any prestige left in Han sympathizers.

And after Cao Rui died before completely securing the succession with worthy heirs like his grandfather Cao Cao, Wei went down quickly. We have to remember, this is the second time an untimely death has struck their dynasty. Cao Pi died just six years after his father died in 220, and Cao Rui died in his mid-30s, in 239.
 
My wife doesn't haul me down to the theatre to watch a four-hour movie. (Though it wasn't bad as far as Chinese historical dramas go.)
 
My wife doesn't haul me down to the theatre to watch a four-hour movie. (Though it wasn't bad as far as Chinese historical dramas go.)
The film is really not credible at all. It is, after all a modification of a modification of a biased version of history.
 
:D I'm sure you can tell where my bias is based on my username :p

I don't see why anyone would side with anyone but Cao Cao

Seriously even in the Ming bashing of him he came off as a swagalicious mofo.

Unlike loo bay and soon kwoon he actually took into consideration the poor effects of having such a large army had on the people and forced them to grow their own food up north.

He handled colonization very well unlike *cough cough* Sun Ci *cough cough*

Probably the only person in that era as swagalicious as him was probably Sima Yi, the dude came close a bunch of times to decking Zhuge Liang.
 
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