Canute IV of Denmark invades England

Canute IV of Denmark, grandnephew of Canute the Great, considered crown of England to be rightfully his and, therefore, regarded William the Conqueror as an usurper. In 1085, with the support of his father-in-law Count Robert of Flanders and of Olaf III of Norway, he planned an invasion of England but it was never carried out because he was worried with the threat of Emperor Henry IV, with whom both Denmark and Flanders were in unfriendly terms. Before the fleet could reassemble, a peasant revolt occurred and he was killed. What if he had ignored the threat of Emperor Henry IV and carried out the invasion of England? Would the invasion succeed or fail? Would Emperor Henry IV have invaded Denmark, while Canute IV was away?
 
Canute IV of Denmark, grandnephew of Canute the Great, considered crown of England to be rightfully his and, therefore, regarded William the Conqueror as an usurper. In 1085, with the support of his father-in-law Count Robert of Flanders and of Olaf III of Norway, he planned an invasion of England but it was never carried out because he was worried with the threat of Emperor Henry IV, with whom both Denmark and Flanders were in unfriendly terms. Before the fleet could reassemble, a peasant revolt occurred and he was killed. What if he had ignored the threat of Emperor Henry IV and carried out the invasion of England? Would the invasion succeed or fail? Would Emperor Henry IV have invaded Denmark, while Canute IV was away?
His son did became a Duke of Flanders IOTL...and a possible match with Empress Matilda.

Possible in this case we would have Flanders, Denmark and England in personal union.
 
I'm inclined to think Henry IV had his hands rather full with his conflict with the papacy plus civil war in his own dominions.

As for Cnut IV's invasion, William I was aware and in the words of the ASC: "he travelled into England with a greater raiding-army of mounted men and infantry from the kingdom of France and from Brittany as had ever sought out this country before - such that men wondered how this land could feed all that raiding-army." Even allowing for a certain amount of hyperbole from that chronicler it seems that William had more than sufficient forces to smash the invasion.
However battles and war are never certain and fortune may favour Cnut (and Robert)... and I guess the wildcard is how the English would react. Do they support William or Cnut? The size of William's mercenary forces suggest he was uncertain as to how they would react.
 
Funnily enough, I was just reading about Canute not five minutes ago.

My takeaway from the whole situation is that there's no way Canute would have invaded without a modicum of security on his southern border. If Rudolf of Rheinfelden were to survive the Battle of Elster and continue to pressure the Emperor whilst other anti-kings rose as per OTL, this would likely occupy Henry's attention and perhaps even lose him the throne (which is a whole 'nother mess of divergences I won't get into). As a result, Canute is free to invade England.

With all that being said, does he win? We can't say, of course, but as others here have mentioned, the Bastard had already prepared an army to deal with him. Moreover, despite my personal hatred of the man, I must admit that William was a seasoned and accomplished commander with talented subordinates. Canute is largely unproven historically. For all we know, he could have been the next Alexander, but probably not.

The most likely outcome is a Danish defeat. However, this is a tragically boring ending to a potentially fascinating POD, so let us presume that Canute proves talented and drives l'Batard back to Norman shores. The Danes have proven that their Frenchified cousins are no match for Scandinavian steel and opened a new verse in the Knútsdrápa. All is well and good in those lands lapped by the Northsea.

Or at least, it seems that way until our sainted protagonist actually bothers to look at the state of his new realm. England in 1084 is a mess from the perspective of the Danes. The Harrying of the North was only 14 years ago, and the Domesday Book, IOTL compiled in 1086, makes it clear that northern England was both heavily depopulated and impoverished from the dread deed. Southern England, while rapidly getting to its feet, has also suffered a series of revolts and reprisals in the last two decades which have left many fields fallow. Worse still, the indigenous Anglo-Saxon and -Danish nobility has been gutted. In its stead are Norman and, in some cases, Breton lords loyal to William, who are outnumbered and often at odds with their supposed vassals. To pacify his new realm, Canute will have to deal with this nobility of pillagers (whether through carrot or stick), a southern population unhappy with yet another foreign king, and a devastated northern England.

I would figure he follows a similar path to William himself, if he's smart, and strips the titles of the nouveau riche en masse, replacing them with his own supporters (and naturally direct rule in some cases). Do his heirs (likely one of his MANY brothers) keep England? Given the legacy of Danish rulers in fair Albion, I tend to doubt it. But if the land is successfully pacified and the Anglo-Norman nobility driven out, there's certainly a chance.
 
Well, supposing that Canute wins, he's going to need to stay in England personally for quite awhile, probably for the rest of his reign.

Giving the breton/norman lords the boot is a good step forward, but i wouldn't completely replace them with Danes. Putting a few token English lords back in unimportant places would probably make him look good
 
Cnut will have to do more than drive William back to Norman shores... his invasion could only be seen as successful if William is killed. There is no way William is not going to stop fighting to hold England although his nobles may see things differently.
Mayhap Cnut and William beat each other up so much it allows a restoration of the House of Wessex.

As an aside, the survey compiled and known as the Domesday Book, was a result of Cnut's threatened invasion. William was looking to boost his revenue stream.
 

Zen9

Banned
Cnute's bet chance is to play the liberator of England.
Despite events there's more than enough people in England who would jump at the chance for a 'reckoning' with the Normans.
By this time there would be no illusions about them and even a Danish Army would look a better, safer and more accommodate-able option.
Expect blood, lots of blood.

Massive scope to reward Cnute's followers and buy English into the new regime.

Curious thought.....with increasing English wealth once again backing Danish ambitions, what would they do next?
 
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Cnute's bet chance is to play the liberator of England.
Despite events there's more than enough people in England who would jump at the chance for a 'reckoning' with the Normans.
By this time there would be no illusions about them and even a Danish Army would look a better, safer and more accommodate-able option.
Expect blood, lots of blood.

Massive scope to reward Cnute's followers and buy English into the new regime.

Curious thought.....with increasing English wealth once again backing Danish ambitions, what would they do next?

Playing liberator didn't work for Cnut's father Sweyn...
As to the English and a reckoning... you'd think that wouldn't you? William II called out the fyrd in 1088, and they answered, to save his throne.
Despite there being a substantial amount of folks in England with Danish blood, not many have illusions in the Danes - the actions of Sweyn and his brother a few years earlier showed the reality of Danes running riot in the country (again).
But there will be blood...
 

Zen9

Banned
Sweyn didn't really do too well for a series of reasons and he was bought off. Which rather proved he was more interested in the loot than the Kingdom
 
Cnute's bet chance is to play the liberator of England.
Despite events there's more than enough people in England who would jump at the chance for a 'reckoning' with the Normans.
By this time there would be no illusions about them and even a Danish Army would look a better, safer and more accommodate-able option.
Expect blood, lots of blood.

Massive scope to reward Cnute's followers and buy English into the new regime.

Curious thought.....with increasing English wealth once again backing Danish ambitions, what would they do next?

Playing as the liberator wouldn't work because, by this time, the English population was pro-Norman.
 
Playing as the liberator wouldn't work because, by this time, the English population was pro-Norman.


Don't know about pro-Norman. They did tend to support the Norman King against rebellious (and probably rapacious) barons, but I doubt if they had any love for Normans as such,.
 

Zen9

Banned
By this time, most English sided with William the Conqueror and his Normans against various rebels.
Sided?
You mean that having captured the state machinary they increasingly removed Anglo-Saxon-Danes from the majority of positions of authority. From the church to the 'writers' (proto-civil service) and all but I dimly recall 5% of the aristocracy. Done within 10 years.

Sided?
You mean having no choice and threatened by rebel Normans, Norse or Irish or Scottish raiders, they chose incumbent rulers who were back by the administrative machinary of the Alfredian state.

You mean the minority who willingly worked with the Normans and we're handsomely rewarded?
While the 'rebels' had their families thrown out of their homes, which were then demolished.
Down my way between a third and half of homes in local towns and villages suffered that fate.

Because 'sided' suggests willingly, and considering the idea of the 'Norman Yoke", and the injustices of the Conquest were raised during the debates at Putney around 600 years later rather suggests that choice was not an option.
 

Zen9

Banned
Anyway if Canute wants help in his ambitions he could send for exiles in Constantinople. At this point the Varangian Guard was chock full of Anglo-Saxons.
 
As I remember his son did inherit Flanders, why not just wait for the War of Succession in Flanders and get the Hand of Matilda of England.
 

Took the words right out of my mouth, compadre. It boggles my mind sometimes how the Norman Conquest is so often treated as "just another war", when it was a brutal and genocidal conflict that spanned decades (arguably longer if you include later rebellions by non-Normans).

As for Varangians, not too sure how successful that would be. I mean, those who came would be skilled warriors who are committed to Norman overthrow, but how willing would they really be to fight for Canute? Seems to me that he'd come off as another foreign invader, but I may be wrong.
 
I wonder: is there the possibility of an outside bet, here? Canute comes across and William fights back...

...but England revolts, and crowns another Anglo-Saxon king? Would it be possible for something like that to happen, a sort of push from the grassroots upwards to try and push both of them from the island?
 
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