Candle In The Wind (1789)

So there's two challenges in this thread. The first is to make Marie Antoinette as popular as Britain's Diana, Princess of Wales. Particularly, the part where her transgressions only make people love her more.

The second challenge is what happens next. I don't see her stopping the French Revolution; in fact, during the Reign of Terror she might still lose her head. But that's only one possibility.
 
So there's two challenges in this thread. The first is to make Marie Antoinette as popular as Britain's Diana, Princess of Wales. Particularly, the part where her transgressions only make people love her more.

The second challenge is what happens next. I don't see her stopping the French Revolution; in fact, during the Reign of Terror she might still lose her head. But that's only one possibility.

I was actually talking about this last night. Have the words "let them eat cake" not be seen as that she doesn't know what the hell is going on, but rather a sort of support for the lower classes - the reason for the saying was that if the bakers had no bread, they were to run at a loss, since they had to sell their artisan bread/cakes at the breads prices.

Other than that, it's not impossible - if Antoinette weren't living at Versailles. Her stopping a coach to care for an injured postillion or paying for farmer's care (upkeep) after a royal hunt had trampled through his fields and left him unable to feed his family et al. Or taking away her children's Christmas toys because "there are people who have no wood for fire or food to eat". Could make her a sort of philanthropist a la Diana. After all, this is the woman who's mother (Maria Theresia) was known for her philanthropy and encouraged it in her children. So, having her become a proto-Princess Di is not impossible. But I would imagine that she'd need to play on a more public stage than the Versailles-circuit or that her husband's a little more savvy financially.
 
Well, growing up she disliked living in Versailles, preferring the Petit Trianon. While the Hameau was an eccentricity, with the good pr it could have been used to say "the Queen loves a frugal and modest life rather the lavish one in Versailles".

Naturally, no affair du collier if you want her to preserve some respect from the French.
 
How difficult would it have been for Marie Antoinette to not live at Versailles? Would she have needed to be separated from Louis, or would living in Paris go unremarked?
 
Transplant her another personality. Marie-Antoinette way of doing things, from fashion expenses to friend-meeting, was precisely the one French people did not want at the times. Queens can be Pompadour-lite only if they have done their Marie Leszczynska part first. Have kids, play the part of alliance symbol between two great nations etc. and then create a power circle at court with your friends, your costumes (power is a play, after all) and your ideas. Do it beforehand and you would be remembered as a foreigner with no head and no sense of duty.
 
So let's say that she pulls it off. What happens when the Revolution comes? Would people be satisfied with Louis XVII (possibly with Marie Antoinette as regent)? Or would they ship her back to Austria singing "Goodbye, France's Rose"?
 
How difficult would it have been for Marie Antoinette to not live at Versailles? Would she have needed to be separated from Louis, or would living in Paris go unremarked?

You'd need to completely reform the French court and the Monarchy's system for handling the nobility. The Sun King created the Versailles system precisely so he could limit the risk of inter-noble squabbling, insure centeral authority was respected and could co-ordinate a consistent French policy despite the atomized government and law codes formed under traditional regime structures. Louis needs to stay, and Marie needs to stay with Louis
 
You'd need to completely reform the French court and the Monarchy's system for handling the nobility. The Sun King created the Versailles system precisely so he could limit the risk of inter-noble squabbling, insure centeral authority was respected and could co-ordinate a consistent French policy despite the atomized government and law codes formed under traditional regime structures. Louis needs to stay, and Marie needs to stay with Louis
What about a second residence? In Britain (granted, a far different system), the monarchs had a city residence, a country estate, and a Scottish home. Could the Queen, even under the Versailles system, spend some weeks in Paris away from the Court without there being a rift in the royal marriage.
 
Ya might want to start with fixing her husband's little problem, which was why all the gossip started about her in the first place. A consummated marriage and a baby make a HUGE difference in the public perception of her.
 
What about a second residence? In Britain (granted, a far different system), the monarchs had a city residence, a country estate, and a Scottish home. Could the Queen, even under the Versailles system, spend some weeks in Paris away from the Court without there being a rift in the royal marriage.

The system you describe was not used in the 18th c. Louis XV court was mainly seated at Versailles, but also moved to other residences, like Fontainebleau or Compiegne. Paris is not possible, due to the "versatile" attitude of the Parisians.
 
What about a second residence? In Britain (granted, a far different system), the monarchs had a city residence, a country estate, and a Scottish home. Could the Queen, even under the Versailles system, spend some weeks in Paris away from the Court without there being a rift in the royal marriage.

See the scandal that blew up when the queen bought Saint-Cloud for herself to see what might happen if she did the same in Paris. It didn't cause a rift in the royal marriage, but it caused tongues to wag when it could not be afforded.
 
I don't want to derail, but I think its worth pointing out that the historical basis on which this comparison is based is somewhat flawed.

Much of Princess Diana's really global popularity came after her death. Indeed, the idea that, as the OP says, "her transgressions only make people love her more" really wasn't the case before her death. While her charitable work and campaigning were admired, a sizeable chunk of the British public were growing sick of her bitter wranglings with Charles and had reservations about her seemingly extravagant lifestyle. See, for example, the rather unsympathetic brief reference she gets in the British House of Cards (season 2).

Her death changed everything - it was only this that really allowed much of the population to see her as an idol and ignore the more difficult elements of her character. Much of her appeal was, as the historian David Cannadine has pointed out, that once she was dead those groups in Thatcher's Britain who felt they were outside of the mainstream (disabled people, the gay community, the poor, etc) could graft their own aspirations and ideals onto Diana without fear of her actions contradicting them.

This isn't going to be the case for Marie-Antoinette. Once the revolution starts in 1789 her death is always going to be seen as something of the old order, even in the best of circumstances, and hardly something that large sections of society can attach personal and poignant meaning to.
 
I don't want to derail, but I think its worth pointing out that the historical basis on which this comparison is based is somewhat flawed.

Much of Princess Diana's really global popularity came after her death. Indeed, the idea that, as the OP says, "her transgressions only make people love her more" really wasn't the case before her death. While her charitable work and campaigning were admired, a sizeable chunk of the British public were growing sick of her bitter wranglings with Charles and had reservations about her seemingly extravagant lifestyle. See, for example, the rather unsympathetic brief reference she gets in the British House of Cards (season 2).

Her death changed everything - it was only this that really allowed much of the population to see her as an idol and ignore the more difficult elements of her character. Much of her appeal was, as the historian David Cannadine has pointed out, that once she was dead those groups in Thatcher's Britain who felt they were outside of the mainstream (disabled people, the gay community, the poor, etc) could graft their own aspirations and ideals onto Diana without fear of her actions contradicting them.

This isn't going to be the case for Marie-Antoinette. Once the revolution starts in 1789 her death is always going to be seen as something of the old order, even in the best of circumstances, and hardly something that large sections of society can attach personal and poignant meaning to.

I've just been thinking, what if Antoinette were to die shortly before the real revolution starts (the Bastille gets stormed, the royal family gets removed from Versailles, but before the Flight to Varennes completely and utterly discredits the monarchy), or maybe earlier? Birth of Madame Sophie kills her or she contracts some or other illness. Louis' likely to follow his OTL route since he didn't really allow Antoinette a say in affairs....
 
I've just been thinking, what if Antoinette were to die shortly before the real revolution starts (the Bastille gets stormed, the royal family gets removed from Versailles, but before the Flight to Varennes completely and utterly discredits the monarchy), or maybe earlier? Birth of Madame Sophie kills her or she contracts some or other illness. Louis' likely to follow his OTL route since he didn't really allow Antoinette a say in affairs....
Depends on how she dies, really.
 
FIX HER HUSBAND'S PERSONAL PROBLEM....so they can start a family earlier and she can avoid the party harlot reputation.

I'm gonna co-sign this lease! Seriously, a lot of Marie Antoinette's problems stemmed from her husband Louis' frigidness. Have her bear a few children and then throw herself into charity work (which she was engaged in anyway, if I do recall) and it should certainly help her reputation.
 
I'm gonna co-sign this lease! Seriously, a lot of Marie Antoinette's problems stemmed from her husband Louis' frigidness. Have her bear a few children and then throw herself into charity work (which she was engaged in anyway, if I do recall) and it should certainly help her reputation.

Thank you. His lack of enthusiasm put her in an awkward position, as she could be repudiated for being childless. They wed in 1770 but had their first in 1778 - from a lack of trying - once they started, she popped'em out. So having children and then being involved in charity will boost her popularity.
 
I've just been thinking, what if Antoinette were to die shortly before the real revolution starts (the Bastille gets stormed, the royal family gets removed from Versailles, but before the Flight to Varennes completely and utterly discredits the monarchy), or maybe earlier? Birth of Madame Sophie kills her or she contracts some or other illness. Louis' likely to follow his OTL route since he didn't really allow Antoinette a say in affairs....

Its an interesting idea, although she already has the 'let them eat cake' taint about her by that point. Plus I'm fairly sure she was more influential than you think - I mean, she is the one with the contacts that make the attempt to flee [which ends in Varennes] possible.

The problem is people are answering this thread as if the OP asked 'How can we make Marie Antoinette more popular?' which isn't actually the question. The challenge was to make her as popular as Princess Diana - which I would argue, for the reasons above, is impossible. Sure some more children or some more charity work will help her cause in the eyes of some, but if I'm brutally honest the majority of French people wouldn't even remember her is she died in, say, the early 1780s even if she did lead a more high-profile positive light.

As I tried to explain above, the issue with Princess Diana was that she was someone people could project their own ideas and dreams onto something particularly potent in 1990s Britain where a lot of groups felt ostracized by the legacy of Thatcher's rule. Even if you give her a tragic death, more children, more charitable work, etc, Marie Antoinette will never be elevated in the public eye the way Princess Diana was because the circumstances are different. She'll never be that mythical 'People's Princess' for all the outsiders and dreamers in 1790s France and, really, will be a faded memory pretty quickly as the more pressing matters of revolution and counter-revolution take over.
 
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