Candidates for a US version of the Gurkhas?

[ComradeFlyer]

amongst my many timelines in progress, one i'm looking at fleshing out more has the US winning the Vietnam War with more Degar assistance, as well as establishing a Strategic Hamlet program similar to the Brits in Malaysia. After the war, the US continues utilizing Degars in other conflicts....

does this entire idea have any merit, and if not, where else can i find a US version of the Gurkhas?

EDIT: for those that don't know, Degar is what the Montagnards call themselves.

 

[Melvin Loh]

Well for starters, possibly a better VW which successfully preserves the RVN and at the same time Degar autonomy in the central highlands, thereby enabling the Green Berets to continue recruiting hilltribesmen into their ranks and possibly establishing separate 'Yard' regts. Or alternatively, a more active recruitment drive after OTL's post-VW of tribesmen into the US military's ranks from amongst the refugee camps in Thailand.

But what about the fact that legally after 1948 and in fact by the 1960s the US armed forces is racially integrated, with all units previously exclusively of members of 1 race, now disbanded- as occurred with the last all-black units like the 24th Inf in Korea ? Could there still be such ethnically distinct Indochinese hilltribe units within the US army in this context of a desegregated military ?

Then you also need to consider whether such an initiative could still work after a US withdrawal and perceived abandonment of the Montagnards to their fate..would the tribesmen still demonstrate that phenomenal loyalty to the Americans even after they get screwed over so badly by US foreign policy ? What about the Hmong, Meo and other hilltribes in Laos and Cambodia ?

 

[zoomar]

The Sioux.

I have a 19th century AH where Britain occupies much of the northern and central plains in a war stemming from the US civil war. Brits use the Sioux to help them "pacify" other plains tribes and defend new holdings from US. Sioux become a favored group, settle into being semi nomadic herders, and are given land holdings by Crown. They become one of many warlike colonial peoples coopted to police the British Empire.

Yanks could do this too if they wanted to.

 

[MerryPrankster]

I'm inclined to agree with Zoomar...some of the tougher Native American tribes could be co-opted by the US. The Sioux and Apache come to mind, as well as any other members of Crazy Horse's coalition.

 

[Hendryk]

Using a Native American tribe as zoomar suggested could be interesting. Then perhaps the analogy is not so much the Gurkhas as the Cossacks in Czarist Russia.

 

[Melvin Loh]

Philippine Scouts ?

Hmmm, just considered- didn't the US already have its own de facto Gurkha-like troops in the Philippine Scouts established after the US took over the islands ? And couldn't you also argue the same to a small extent with some of the OTL Indian scouts the Army used on the plains and in the southwest such as the Pawnee Bn and the Crow, Arikara, Seminole and friendly Apache scouts ?

 

[Weapon M]

How about the US keeps some all-black units and they end up being like the Gurkhas? Maybe even adopting some sort of African-based insignia, banner, emblems or whatever...

If this doesn't prevent the rest of the military from being integrated...

 

[Landshark]

Liberians?

 

[Brilliantlight]

Well for starters, possibly a better VW which successfully preserves the RVN and at the same time Degar autonomy in the central highlands, thereby enabling the Green Berets to continue recruiting hilltribesmen into their ranks and possibly establishing separate 'Yard' regts. Or alternatively, a more active recruitment drive after OTL's post-VW of tribesmen into the US military's ranks from amongst the refugee camps in Thailand.

But what about the fact that legally after 1948 and in fact by the 1960s the US armed forces is racially integrated, with all units previously exclusively of members of 1 race, now disbanded- as occurred with the last all-black units like the 24th Inf in Korea ? Could there still be such ethnically distinct Indochinese hilltribe units within the US army in this context of a desegregated military ?

I think you could if you made them semi-independent from the official US Army. As Allied forces integration wouldn't be an issue as they would be an Indochinese army not an American one.

 

[ComradeFlyer]

thats what i am thinking Brilliant, the Gurkhas are not British, they are Nepalese citizens serving in the British Army, when they retire the majority return home.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Using a Native American tribe as zoomar suggested could be interesting. Then perhaps the analogy is not so much the Gurkhas as the Cossacks in Czarist Russia.

Weren't the Cossacks ethnic Russians though? The US equivalent of Cossacks might be runaway slaves and/or white fugitives from justice settling in marginal areas--the Feds might turn a blind eye if these groups perform border defense or something.

 

[Grey Wolf]

A native tribe sounds more like the Cossacks than the Gurkhas

Maybe something like an independent Yucatan would provide a body of men for the US Gurkha analogue

It does have to be noted though, that the US army has a tradition of allowing foreigners to serve, so in a sense there is no NEED for this

Grey Wolf

 

[Duncan]

Of course, it might not be impossible for the US to hire real Gurkha regiments. India and Brunei have used them, as well as Britain.

Don't know what might start this off, though; perhaps they could be exiles from a Communist Nepal? What if the US sponsored a "Nepalese-led" campaign against the Chinese occupation of Tibet in the 50s? American-backed Gurkha infiltrators instead of just the CIA arming the Khampa guerillas as in OTL? Then when the counter-revolutionary forces lose, especially if it involves a Communist takeover of Nepal, the US keeps the refugee Gurkha force in being and uses it elsewhere.

 

[Melvin Loh]

Aussie version of Gurkhas ?

Hmmm, just got me thinkin, what bout an Australian version of the Gurkhas ? Possible candidates for ADF systematic recruitment of foreign-born troops into discrete ethnically-identified outfits:
Army retains units from the Papuan Volunteer Rifles or Royal New Guinea Regt as part of our standing army post-WWII, based on the PNG natives' sterling performance on the Kokoda Trail, or retains the Torres Strait Islands Light Inf which was formed from among TSIs to defend the islands and north Qld from possible Japanese attack round the time of the Coral Sea
armed forces establish special Pacific Island units for Fijians, Samoans, Tongans and other Polynesians with an acknowledged warrior status

Of course, OTL there's already NORFORCE which comprises a substantial proportion of local Arnhemland Aborigines who're basically policing their own tribal land.

 

[David S Poepoe]

I think this discussion underscores the blandness of a modern Army when compared to the armies of the Victorian era. The colorfulness, even in the US Army, of the Colored Troops or Indian Scouts, etc. all take a terrible blow do to the mass conscriptions of both World Wars and then the peace time cuts that followed.

The easiest route I can figure for a US version of the Gurkhas would be if there was an sovereign Indian Nation within the confines the United States. Perhaps the Sioux, and other tribes, are reduced to the area of OTL North and South Dakota and they have their own established government. They would possess a small armed forces for their own defense, tho most of the time they will be enlisted by the United States.

 

[Thande]

WI the Five Civilised Tribes side with the US instead of the CS, Oklahoma remains the Indian Territory, and then you get 'Gurkhas' from there serving in separate regiments within the US army when the Americans get expansionist?

 

[Tyr]

I'd think the best way to go about it is the US is less evil with regards to the natives and doesn't go out conquering them all and many just become protectorates of it. Then you could get your tough sioux units.