Canadian help in Falklands

MatthewB

Banned
I don't mean combat forces, but could Canada have helped Britain in the Falklands? For example, Canada offers her five inflight refueling planes to the RAF?

Boeing-tanker-2--James-Craik.jpg


Or RCN ships replace RN ships on NATO patrols? The RAN did the same in the Pacific.

Timing may be tough, as the invasion was on April 02, 1982 and on April 17, 1982, Queen Elizabeth II signed the Proclamation which brought the Constitution Act, 1982 into force.
 
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Well, here's the important question in order to establish what the context would be for TTL differences - at the time, how was it covered in the Anglophone Canadian press and what were attitudes in English Canada at the time? Were there any regional differences in attitudes in English Canada?
 
I think both French and English Canadians were firmly on the side of England.

Remember that Argentina was under the control of an especially vicious dictatorship that had destroyed the countries economy and was reviled the world over for its actrocities, disappearances, torture, murder and savagery. They were basically a slightly more competent, but larger scale Idi Amin's Uganda. Their invasion was an international outrage, and there was literally no support, except for a handful of crazies in the Reagan administration.
 

MatthewB

Banned
Well, here's the important question in order to establish what the context would be for TTL differences - at the time, how was it covered in the Anglophone Canadian press and what were attitudes in English Canada at the time? Were there any regional differences in attitudes in English Canada?
I think the biggest issue is what is the attitude of Pierre Trudeau. Had Joe Clark, representing Western Canada avoided the 1980 election he would have been PM in 1982. Now if we can get the British-born John Turner into the PM seat in 1982 we may have some success.

What do we know about the RCAF's five Boeing CC-137? Was it as useful or more than the RAF's Victor tankers? Did the CC-137 have useful range? Were its drogues compatible with RAF systems?

Of course, what the RN could really use are the four Iroquois class air defense destroyers. Their Sea Sparrows could have done well. But, alas I think it's a fantasy to suggest Canada would send warships.
 
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I think both French and English Canadians were firmly on the side of England.

Remember that Argentina was under the control of an especially vicious dictatorship that had destroyed the countries economy and was reviled the world over for its actrocities, disappearances, torture, murder and savagery. They were basically a slightly more competent, but larger scale Idi Amin's Uganda. Their invasion was an international outrage, and there was literally no support, except for a handful of crazies in the Reagan administration.

Well, the Falklands was one of those conflicts where there seemed to be a slight bit of muted confusion over which side people were supposed to line up on ideologically. I DO recall in Canada a bit of resentment among certain of the more pacifistic elements of the left, that Thatcher in particular was going to reap a lot of glory by engaging in a bloody confrontation over "a few rocks in the ocean".

Conversely, I remember some of the pro-military redneck crowd saying stuff like "The Brits should just go over there and bomb the living hell out of Argentina", apparently unconcerned that they were wishing death and destruction upon the kind of regime that would under normal circumstances be defended as a bulwark against Communism.

Overall, though, yes, mainstream opinion in English Canada anyway was on the side of the UK. I'm not sure about the French. Does anyone happen to know whether Quebec media calls them the Falklands, or the Malvinas?
 
Overall, though, yes, mainstream opinion in English Canada anyway was on the side of the UK. I'm not sure about the French. Does anyone happen to know whether Quebec media calls them the Falklands, or the Malvinas?
TBH I don't think the French media talks about them much at all.
 
TBH I don't think the French media talks about them much at all.
Well, from a quick glance at Wiki, in French the islands are called les Îles Malouines; as it was the French who named them in the first place they got first dibs (the Spanish is an adaptation of the French). How it got that name we don't know, though a convincing theory suggests it was named after the port of Saint-Malo.

Terminology aside, I agree we don't knoww what French Canada's reaction. I would not see PET having a choice on this; if asked to provide help he would have to react quickly, personal opinion and public opinion in Quebec be damned. Ti-Pet was already persona non grata to a considerable part of the Quebec public due to sending the Army into the streets of Montreal, so he had nothing to lose there.
 

MatthewB

Banned
I would not see PET having a choice on this; if asked to provide help he would have to react quickly.
The US provided AAMs and other support, while France withdrew support to the Argentine Air Force.

Britain didn’t need help on combat forces, but Thatcher might have asked Canada to support air to air refueling, maybe to borrow some Chinooks, etc. If Hermes or Invincible are hit, the asks may get more direct.
 
Ti-Pet was already persona non grata to a considerable part of the Quebec public due to sending the Army into the streets of Montreal, so he had nothing to lose there.

Well, electorally speaking, the real backlash against PET in Quebec didn't go into full swing until after he repatriated the constitution in 1982.

And, speaking of which, that repatriation occured right in the middle of the Falklands War, and had obviously been in planning for months prior. If the UK had asked for Canada's help in the South Atlantic, I wonder how the ongoing consitutional negotiations would have influenced his decisions.
 
^ You know, as many times as I've seen this picture, I never knew until today that it was taken during the middle of the Falklands War.

So, while Her Majesty was signing away British constitutional authority in North America, her army was fighting to maintain its last colony on the other end of the hemisphere.
 
OTL It is rumoured that the CIA quietly provided satellite imagery. Douglas Haig provided shuttle diplomacy.
French manufacturers (e.g. Dassault) sold airplanes to the Argies before the war, but the French Air Force allowed RAF Harrier pilots to practice dog fighting Mirages on European ranges.

We have long wondered if the USN quietly provided fleet oilers and air tankers over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean ??????? The greatest challenge is the long ranges involved.

ATL Pierre Elliot Trudeau never understood the Canadian military. He was probably too distracted with repatriating the Constitution. Canadian Admirals probably quietly covered a few RN patrols in the North Atlantic while the RCAF might have sent an extra squadron or two to Norway to cover shortages in RAF patrols. 5 air tankers and a fleet oiler would have only slightly improved RN logistics in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The biggest challenge would have been keeping Canadian sailors quiet about their participation until after the Falklands War. RCAF probe and drogue refuelling systems were compatible with all NATO airplanes except USAF, so refuelling RAF transports would be straight forward.
 
OTL It is rumoured that the CIA quietly provided satellite imagery. Douglas Haig provided shuttle diplomacy.
French manufacturers (e.g. Dassault) sold airplanes to the Argies before the war, but the French Air Force allowed RAF Harrier pilots to practice dog fighting Mirages on European ranges.

We have long wondered if the USN quietly provided fleet oilers and air tankers over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean ??????? The greatest challenge is the long ranges involved.

ATL Pierre Elliot Trudeau never understood the Canadian military. He was probably too distracted with repatriating the Constitution. Canadian Admirals probably quietly covered a few RN patrols in the North Atlantic while the RCAF might have sent an extra squadron or two to Norway to cover shortages in RAF patrols. 5 air tankers and a fleet oiler would have only slightly improved RN logistics in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. The biggest challenge would have been keeping Canadian sailors quiet about their participation until after the Falklands War. RCAF probe and drogue refuelling systems were compatible with all NATO airplanes except USAF, so refuelling RAF transports would be straight forward.

US assistance during the Falklands war was more overt than is generally realized. It's just that in the days before the internet, pervasive 24 hour cable news, and social media, it's harder to publicize things going on in remote areas. This picture is of the airfield on the Ascension Island in 1982. There's nothing covert about a C-5 that says, "U.S. Air Force" on the side:

 
French manufacturers (e.g. Dassault) sold airplanes to the Argies before the war, but the French Air Force allowed RAF Harrier pilots to practice dog fighting Mirages on European ranges.

I also read in an article in the Naval War College Review that British and French intelligence collaborated to buy up all of the spare Exocets on the open market ensuring the Argentinians were stuck with the inventory on hand.
 
Also, wasn't one of the most significant forms of assistance the US provided was rush delivery of shiny new Niner Limas to the FAA that the Harrier pilots made good use of?
 
US assistance during the Falklands war was more overt than is generally realized. It's just that in the days before the internet, pervasive 24 hour cable news, and social media, it's harder to publicize things going on in remote areas. This picture is of the airfield on the Ascension Island in 1982. There's nothing covert about a C-5 that says, "U.S. Air Force" on the side:

"Why nonsense. The United States Air Force is merely conducting a peace time exercise to determine the readiness of military airlift units in the event of war. The fact that this exercise involves flying a steady stream of transport aircraft between the American mainland and a RAF base in the South Atlantic is just happenstance."
 

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
Also, wasn't one of the most significant forms of assistance the US provided was rush delivery of shiny new Niner Limas to the FAA that the Harrier pilots made good use of?

To be fair . . . it wasn't that significant as most of the SHAR's kills where from the arse end.

The original inventory of the Nine Delta's would've worked just as well . . . although the RN's FAA and RAF wouldn't have known that beforehand
 
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