Canada's October Crisis..

boredatwork

Banned
can we move out of ASB land? things like Violent Quebec independence, or US takeover of Canada

is there any way for the Quebec independence movement become as big and power as the IRA, and if they could and did what would that do to Canada to have it's own Troubles


Can't see it.

The IRA didn't just have language, they had nationalism (stoked by centuries of issues with the english), they had religion, ethnicity, and could point to common depictions of Irish as subhuman in british media (well, newspapers back then).

For a Quebec version of the IRA, you need several more centuries, some black&tan type repression, evictions of french speakers off the land, a few failed violent quebecker uprisings, and a wealthy expat community ready and willing to back them up.

Even that will only get you a 1920's free state movement (armed, possibly).

In order for the modern IRA die-hards, you need to mix that in with a nice modern revolutionary ideology (socialism has been the popular choice, but theocracy is making a comeback in some parts), and have the combination take over organized crime for a sustained period.

In other words - I think you would need to have multiple POD's, most back in the colonial settlement period to get something like that today.
 
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can we move out of ASB land? things like Violent Quebec independence, or US takeover of Canada

is there any way for the Quebec independence movement become as big and power as the IRA, and if they could and did what would that do to Canada to have it's own Troubles
I'm American, but I guess Canada would probably win in a war with Quebec.
 
Can't see it.

The IRA didn't just have language, they had nationalism (stoked by centuries of issues with the english), they had religion, language, and could point to common depictions of Irish as subhuman in british media (well, newspapers back then).

For a Quebec version of the IRA, you need several more centuries, some black&tan type repression, evictions of french speakers off the land, a few failed violent quebecker uprisings, and a wealthy expat community ready and willing to back them up.

Even that will only get you a 1920's free state movement (armed, possibly).

In order for the modern IRA die-hards, you need to mix that in with a nice modern revolutionary ideology (socialism has been the popular choice, but theocracy is making a comeback in some parts), and have the combination take over organized crime for a sustained period.

In other words - I think you would need to have multiple POD's, most back in the colonial settlement period to get something like that today.

more or less what i thought.
 
Just to expand upon the ASB qualities of this thread....

The Black and Tans of the October Crisis:

The Quebec Provincial Police Special Constables...(Drawn mainly from Western Canada, the QPPSC's composed of veterans, former police , prior service police, reservists and former RCMP officers, the unit was known for its usage of irregular warfare and particularly harsh treatment of the French speaking population).
 

boredatwork

Banned
Just to expand upon the ASB qualities of this thread....

The Black and Tans of the October Crisis:

The Quebec Provincial Police Special Constables...(Drawn mainly from Western Canada, the QPPSC's composed of veterans, former police , prior service police, reservists and former RCMP officers, the unit was known for its usage of irregular warfare and particularly harsh treatment of the French speaking population).

Since we're all agreed this is ASB, could someone move the thread to the ASB forum?
 
In other words - I think you would need to have multiple POD's, most back in the colonial settlement period to get something like that today.

The only thing I can think of that even remotely brings this into something that isn't ASBish would be having the Quebec Act be 180 degrees different from what it was in OTL (i.e. instead of giving them a relatively good deal, it throws them to the wolves instead)

Even that's kind of pushing it logic-wise (why would the Brits do something that idiotic?) but at least it would lay down the groundwork for something like an IRA style movement.

Of course, if there's a completely different Quebec Act you end up altering not only 200 years of Canadian history but American history as well.
 

boredatwork

Banned
The only thing I can think of that even remotely brings this into something that isn't ASBish would be having the Quebec Act be 180 degrees different from what it was in OTL (i.e. instead of giving them a relatively good deal, it throws them to the wolves instead)

Even that's kind of pushing it logic-wise (why would the Brits do something that idiotic?) but at least it would lay down the groundwork for something like an IRA style movement.

Of course, if there's a completely different Quebec Act you end up altering not only 200 years of Canadian history but American history as well.

I think it's harder than that.

You not only need a different act - you need very different relations between quebeckers and the rest of Canada - there's a whole slew of sources of hatred and disgruntlement that shaped the IRA - even a malevolently stupid Quebec act (alone) wouldn't be enough.

Which just goes to show what an astonishingly poor job of handling things the British did in Ireland, the managed to do just about everything possible to rile up the locals.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
So...I'm just going to repitch this: You have a bunch of Spineless Nincompoops at the head of the Provincial government that aren't willing to ask for Federal assistance.

Then you might get some riots or something, and have the government send in troops to Quebec City and Montreal on it's own hook.

But that's not a civil war. That's just the LA Riots with French subtitles.
 
I have an idea that doesn't involve Quebec revolting, but I think it may be more realistic. What if some of the native peoples of the Canadian North decided that they wanted independence?
 
So...I'm just going to repitch this: You have a bunch of Spineless Nincompoops at the head of the Provincial government that aren't willing to ask for Federal assistance.

Then you might get some riots or something, and have the government send in troops to Quebec City and Montreal on it's own hook.

But that's not a civil war. That's just the LA Riots with French subtitles.


Would it even reach those levels though?

Seriously -- I'm trying very hard to think of a scenario where Canada ends up in a full-scale civil war (as opposed to scary riots) and I'm really not seeing any way to do it short of using a POD that's really far in the past.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Would it even reach those levels though?

Seriously -- I'm trying very hard to think of a scenario where Canada ends up in a full-scale civil war (as opposed to scary riots) and I'm really not seeing any way to do it short of using a POD that's really far in the past.

I agree. It's not possible.

Not even with some of the ancillary effects of some of the stuff that's been pitched around here.

Not even if there was some "Trent Incident British Get Into The Civil War, and the Americans arm the Metis to cut off British North America" thread.

Wait...I'm gonna write that down...
 
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